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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Update...

Well, thanks to the wonderful HD company, my LW dealer is still awaiting delivery of the 12V circuitry that was deemed faulty by HD
I would be interested in the answer to Oldun's questions and would also ask, what after market accessories / wiring has been done to the machine?
... no mods, or after-market stuff done to the bike - at all ...
 

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Update...

Well, thanks to the wonderful HD company, my LW dealer is still awaiting delivery of the 12V circuitry that was deemed faulty by HD

... no mods, or after-market stuff done to the bike - at all ...
I've learned through all the things I've been doing to my ride, that I need to order the parts I need first and then go to the dealer.
I seem to get them a little faster or they don't sit without communication.

The last few times I've let the dealer handle ordering the parts needed to be swapped or whatever, it's either taken forever to get or it sits and I don't hear unless I call back.

Sadly, it's a combination of dealers that don't really want to work with this bike and distributers that are having challenges getting the new parts.
Since we're not a mainstream machine, they don't just have our parts sitting in a warehouse ready. I'm gathering some of these parts need to be ordered from the assembly line, fabrication shop or computer manufacturer and then shipped to HDMC's fulfillment and then the dealer. (like they are personal orders.)

At least when I order it (assuming my bikes not down)... I can still play with it, paint it, customize something, etc. until they are ready to install the part(s) needed.
 

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I charged at home ( about 75% of time) and on Dealer's fast charger (remaining charges...) - as HD recommends. BUT this being said, it should have nothing to do with the 12V charging circuit failing (???).
thank you for the update and I hope your problems are getting sorted. I agree with you, it should have nothing to do with the 12 V circuit failing, unless there is a bleed over effect on to that circuit from the high DC charge. But I really don't have enough knowledge to say whether that is feasible or not.
 

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Update...

Well, thanks to the wonderful HD company, my LW dealer is still awaiting delivery of the 12V circuitry that was deemed faulty by HD

... no mods, or after-market stuff done to the bike - at all ...
Flokki,

I feel your pain! Dealer told me that my parts made it in today. They also told me that it would be done today, but I clearly don’t have it back yet! I am trying really hard not to be negative about this ordeal. I know it’s new tech and there are growing pains...but typically one expects extra service to accommodate said growing pains. HD just doesn’t seem to be able to do that right now. I’m really hoping that the new changes to the LW brand will help, but I’m afraid the opposite may be true.

Will update when I get “Lexie” back...
 

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Any change of your status Flokki?

my parts came in, they installed them, and it’s still dead. Another week down the drain.
Dealer ordered (overnight) two more parts, one came in, the other didn’t. Now H-D says it’ll be the end of this week. It seems to me that either there are hundreds of us having the exact same issue or H-D isn’t really interested in getting the parts out in a timely manner.

As of this Friday, I’ll be a month (out of the three I have owned it) without my LW. To say I’m frustrated would be an understatement.
 

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Any change of your status Flokki?

my parts came in, they installed them, and it’s still dead. Another week down the drain.
Dealer ordered (overnight) two more parts, one came in, the other didn’t. Now H-D says it’ll be the end of this week. It seems to me that either there are hundreds of us having the exact same issue or H-D isn’t really interested in getting the parts out in a timely manner.

As of this Friday, I’ll be a month (out of the three I have owned it) without my LW. To say I’m frustrated would be an understatement.
the most unfortunate thing about this is it's a common feature on EVs, even the cars work this way - so why is it so hard. There's plenty of examples to glean a proper build from.

They'll clearly need to get this figured out before the new LiveWire company can proceed.
 

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Update...

Well, thanks to the wonderful HD company, my LW dealer is still awaiting delivery of the 12V circuitry that was deemed faulty by HD

... no mods, or after-market stuff done to the bike - at all ...
Hello Flokki, thanks if possible to share the parts references and names that HD will be replace to solve this default; I'Hope for you they will receive it in few days...
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
Update - and "end-of-story"...

I just picked put my LW from repair.
The whole 12V charging circuit was exchanged, + a new battery. The 3rd one in total. However the repair was not completed with the part that HD had promised to send since over a month. Instead they used the respective item from one of the (new) dealer-stock bikes. HD still has NOT not committed to a delivery date for the replacement.

My dealer eventually showed initiative in having the issue fixed, after me talking to the Sales Manager in person and further escalation up their management "flagpole".

This being said, I am still very mad with the HD Motor Company.
Buyers beware... this could happen to you with all sorts of original HD spares and replacement parts!

For now my LW runs again. At the moment it is "recovering from surgery" in the garage, sucking some 110V "juice".

- The End -
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Hello Flokki, thanks if possible to share the parts references and names that HD will be replace to solve this default; I'Hope for you they will receive it in few days...
Sorry, Eric
They shop did not provide me with a part number...
The item replaced is THE 12V charging circuit located under the "tank" cover, and another fresh battery.
 

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Update - and "end-of-story"...

I just picked put my LW from repair.
The whole 12V charging circuit was exchanged, + a new battery. The 3rd one in total. However the repair was not completed with the part that HD had promised to send since over a month. Instead they used the respective item from one of the (new) dealer-stock bikes. HD still has NOT not committed to a delivery date for the replacement.

My dealer eventually showed initiative in having the issue fixed, after me talking to the Sales Manager in person and further escalation up their management "flagpole".

This being said, I am still very mad with the HD Motor Company.
Buyers beware... this could happen to you with all sorts of original HD spares and replacement parts!

For now my LW runs again. At the moment it is "recovering from surgery" in the garage, sucking some 110V "juice".

- The End -
Great to hear that you got your LW back! My dealer won’t even return my emails. Parts were supposed to ship overnight on Friday...it’s been five days since then and it’s radio silence. Interestingly enough about a week and half ago, they drove it 4 miles, the day before they said the last set of parts came in. I’m done with Scottsdale HD. I am nearly sure that I am done with HD in general. I know someone spoke about lemon laws earlier in the thread...looks like I’m up against that on mine. Super bummed about it. I love my LW...
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Great to hear that you got your LW back! My dealer won’t even return my emails. Parts were supposed to ship overnight on Friday...it’s been five days since then and it’s radio silence. Interestingly enough about a week and half ago, they drove it 4 miles, the day before they said the last set of parts came in. I’m done with Scottsdale HD. I am nearly sure that I am done with HD in general. I know someone spoke about lemon laws earlier in the thread...looks like I’m up against that on mine. Super bummed about it. I love my LW...
I hear you and feel the pain and frustration. We only have one HD dealer here in Victoria, BC, and they are trying for the most part to keep their clients happy. Unfortunately, I don't think there will be more HD bikes for me in the future.
I am actually surprised that clients are not running away from HD in droves. How much crap from HD MC are the "faithful" willing to put up with? Despite being a local (American...) product, customer loyalty is - still - earned, not deserved.
 

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I'm sorry to hear of you guys' troubles and I'm sure I would be v unhappy if that happened to me and I'm not trying to talk you out of being unhappy. Still, as they told me when I was growing up, "If it has wings, wheels or a skirt, it'll cause you trouble - and many things that don't, will too." Plus we have the whole early-adopter-gremlin risks. I do hope you have better luck ahead.
 

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FINALLY! Got my LW back two days ago. L1 charging seems to be working again. I am going to go to a L3 charger and test to make sure that still works too. The one at the dealer did not seem to work, but I don’t 100% trust that it was operating correctly.
 

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A little insight from a former H-D engineer. Though I don't work there anymore, I'm not at liberty to share ALL the details, but the OBC issue is mainly due to the supplier of the OBC. Now, H-D hasn't done itself any favors in the communication department and should be keeping customers better informed. Unfortunately, also, the H-D dealers aren't well versed or trained on the Livewire and are still climbing a steep learning curve to supporting them (a lot of us engineers were jumping up and down trying to get dealer services more involved, but it didn't happen to the extent we wanted).

To the original point, the supply issue, in and of itself, however, is NOT an H-D issue, at least when I worked there at the end of last year. Keep in mind that I didn't work directly on the charger, so take some of this with a grain of salt. Their supplier was/still is AFAIK not making them fast enough. Also, despite the slow production, they weren't making them good, either, for a while. HDMC was rejecting many of them before even installing on the bikes - the fact that some (a lot of?) bad ones still slipped through stinks. I cannot confirm it is still the plan, but there were plans to completely redo the charger and design it (and to some extent even manufacture some portion) entirely in house at H-D, but until those designs are finished and production is ramped up, H-D is stuck with the current supplier. I'm guessing, but don't know for sure, that the new "LiveWire" branded LiveWires will have an in-house designed charger. The H-D engineers I knew could have done (will do?) a much better job designing the charger than our supplier ended up doing if they had been given the time and resources to do it, but they were overextended due to short staff at the time. Who knows, maybe it will even have actual L2 charging speed on an L2 charger, I can only hope.

I too, would be interested in getting production dates of problematic vs non-problematic units. Before I left, the supplier was supposed to have improved their design and production process and as far as I know, those that got a newer OBCs weren't reporting issues (or at least not as many), though production was still slow.

I have left out some details I had knowledge of and I don't believe I've said anything that can't be disclosed as I'm removed from the current knowledge at the company, but if requested by H-D, I will delete this post. Thank You.
 

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Welcome to the forum @Captain Karnage! Thanks for sharing this with us! Are there any other things we should be looking out for with our bikes that you can share from your experience working with HD? Do you have a LiveWire yourself?
 

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Thanks for the welcomes. Yes, I do have a Livewire myself. Just got it in December, though I got to ride plenty of them before that while I worked there. That was one of the things I loved about working there, no matter your "normal" job role, everyone who wanted to be a test rider was a test rider once the bikes reached a certain point in development and were deemed safe to ride. Sorta silly, but I almost miss the jet engine like sound the development Livewires made when accelerating which they toned down a lot before production. I understand why others didn't like it and why it was toned down though.

My main focus was overseeing body control electronics designs and upgrades. Electronic hardware wise, that basically consisted of the BCM and all related peripherals (except the lights themselves) for model years 2018-2021 (2018 was more helping with warranty claims, didn't do any design for 2018) for all H-D models during those model years except the Street. This includes the Livewire, the Pan America, and actually even the Sportster S that was just announced today, though someone after me may have made some additional changes since I left before it was launched. The Sportster S uses the same BCM as the Pan America, which I lead the design of from the ground up both HW and SW. As part of all that, I worked on a lot of the background logic and algorithms that are used to make the bike controls function, not including engine controls or the instrument itself, and probably a couple other things I can't think of at the moment. A lot of stuff you don't see directly. One more visible example is ride modes. The BCM is the main coordinator of the ride modes on the bikes. I finished the ride mode algorithm for the LiveWire and completely designed the Pan America ride mode algorithm (borrowing some parts from the LiveWire). You see the buttons on the instrument, which I didn't do, but what happens in the background to direct all the parts to set the ride mode after you push the button is what I worked on. I also designed the bank lamp algorithm for the Pan America, also controlled by the BCM. I also had a small part in the advanced suspension system for it. I even had a hand in some models that have yet to launch and were delayed due to the Pandemic but I can't make any more comment on those.

I love the Livewire. I do have a little disdain for the charger, but other than that I think it's a great bike and it's a ton of fun, and H-D is trying to get the charger issues resolved. What H-D designed was really solid. There are some really great engineers there, it was a great team to work with. I find that most of the critics need to actually take a ride to understand the difference between it and the other EV motorcycles on the market. Not that they're by any measure bad bikes, but even though they look similar (or in some cases, a little better) on paper, when you ride them, there's no comparison, the LiveWire just has a better feel to it. As with any new to the market product, it had a few bugs and kinks that needed to be worked out most of which honestly couldn't be 100% found until we had real world customer hours on the machines.

Disclaimer: I didn't start riding until I started working for H-D in 2017, so not a super experienced biker, but I had been wanting to for a long time and I've been riding ever since.

Not a whole lot I can comment on as I'm still bound to some nondisclosure agreements, unfortunately. I'll share what I can, though.

One thing I can say is, depending on how long ago your LiveWire was made, there was a software update to the BCM along with a configuration change in the OBC that you might not have but was sent to the dealers awhile back. I don't think all dealers were aggressive enough with letting customers know they needed an update. If the AC charger does not lock when you plug it in after you move your key fob away from the bike, you should have the dealers update your BCM software and OBC configuration so it locks properly and prevents people from pulling your plug. It only had this issue with AC charge, not with DC fast charging. They should have the instructions from H-D on how to do the update and be able to do it for you with an appointment. Just tell them the charger isn't locking when you plug it in and you heard there's an update that fixes it.

Oh, and if the red triangle clears on a power cycle, 99.9% chance it's just a nuisance and nothing to be worried about. I hope they fix that soon - but each time you see it, you should complain to your dealer about it so H-D has the visibility to how widespread of a problem it is. I have seen it a couple times on my own bike. Don't let them take it in the shop due to that, though, hold on to it, just report when it happens.
 

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Thanks for the welcomes. Yes, I do have a Livewire myself. Just got it in December, though I got to ride plenty of them before that while I worked there. That was one of the things I loved about working there, no matter your "normal" job role, everyone who wanted to be a test rider was a test rider once the bikes reached a certain point in development and were deemed safe to ride. Sorta silly, but I almost miss the jet engine like sound the development Livewires made when accelerating which they toned down a lot before production. I understand why others didn't like it and why it was toned down though.

My main focus was overseeing body control electronics designs and upgrades. Electronic hardware wise, that basically consisted of the BCM and all related peripherals (except the lights themselves) for model years 2018-2021 (2018 was more helping with warranty claims, didn't do any design for 2018) for all H-D models during those model years except the Street. This includes the Livewire, the Pan America, and actually even the Sportster S that was just announced today, though someone after me may have made some additional changes since I left before it was launched. The Sportster S uses the same BCM as the Pan America, which I lead the design of from the ground up both HW and SW. As part of all that, I worked on a lot of the background logic and algorithms that are used to make the bike controls function, not including engine controls or the instrument itself, and probably a couple other things I can't think of at the moment. A lot of stuff you don't see directly. One more visible example is ride modes. The BCM is the main coordinator of the ride modes on the bikes. I finished the ride mode algorithm for the LiveWire and completely designed the Pan America ride mode algorithm (borrowing some parts from the LiveWire). You see the buttons on the instrument, which I didn't do, but what happens in the background to direct all the parts to set the ride mode after you push the button is what I worked on. I also designed the bank lamp algorithm for the Pan America, also controlled by the BCM. I also had a small part in the advanced suspension system for it. I even had a hand in some models that have yet to launch and were delayed due to the Pandemic but I can't make any more comment on those.

I love the Livewire. I do have a little disdain for the charger, but other than that I think it's a great bike and it's a ton of fun, and H-D is trying to get the charger issues resolved. What H-D designed was really solid. There are some really great engineers there, it was a great team to work with. I find that most of the critics need to actually take a ride to understand the difference between it and the other EV motorcycles on the market. Not that they're by any measure bad bikes, but even though they look similar (or in some cases, a little better) on paper, when you ride them, there's no comparison, the LiveWire just has a better feel to it. As with any new to the market product, it had a few bugs and kinks that needed to be worked out most of which honestly couldn't be 100% found until we had real world customer hours on the machines.

Disclaimer: I didn't start riding until I started working for H-D in 2017, so not a super experienced biker, but I had been wanting to for a long time and I've been riding ever since.

Not a whole lot I can comment on as I'm still bound to some nondisclosure agreements, unfortunately. I'll share what I can, though.

One thing I can say is, depending on how long ago your LiveWire was made, there was a software update to the BCM along with a configuration change in the OBC that you might not have but was sent to the dealers awhile back. I don't think all dealers were aggressive enough with letting customers know they needed an update. If the AC charger does not lock when you plug it in after you move your key fob away from the bike, you should have the dealers update your BCM software and OBC configuration so it locks properly and prevents people from pulling your plug. It only had this issue with AC charge, not with DC fast charging. They should have the instructions from H-D on how to do the update and be able to do it for you with an appointment. Just tell them the charger isn't locking when you plug it in and you heard there's an update that fixes it.

Oh, and if the red triangle clears on a power cycle, 99.9% chance it's just a nuisance and nothing to be worried about. I hope they fix that soon - but each time you see it, you should complain to your dealer about it so H-D has the visibility to how widespread of a problem it is. I have seen it a couple times on my own bike. Don't let them take it in the shop due to that, though, hold on to it, just report when it happens.
This is just GREAT info!

I have had two updates since I purchased mine in Oct '19, although the lock still does not seem to work, so I'll have to check with them again... my 15K is right around the corner. :)

Is there specific wording I can use to convince them since they are generally reluctant to do much more than "scheduled service" unless there is a memo from high up. :/ It's been a challenge sometimes to even get suggestions on upgrades, modifications, etc... without my own extreme research and testing.
I spent roughly 1K just to test setup some clubmen bars and ended up going with drag bars in the end.

As for the sound, I did get a chance to ride the '14 prototype when it came to my city and I would 100% agree, I wish it was as loud as it was then.
My education tells me this is gearing (mechanical)... is there any other way to make it louder... as I TOTALLY love that jet whir and proudly flaunt it! :)

I (and I'm sure everyone) REALLY appreciate your incite, feedback and assistance, for REAL!
 
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