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From Forbes on Jan 29, 2021:
"Joe Biden has announced that he has signed an executive order that will require the replacement of the entire fleet of federal vehicles with US-built electric cars, vans and trucks; in all, some 645,000 nationwide."

Bob, my local dealership is the same as the one you described above. They aren't ready to join the EV community, not yet. But political opinions aside, we're in a wave of EV-friendly government leaders from the USA to China. I doubt the resistance of my local Savannah HD dealership to sell EVs will play much part in the future of the technology.
 

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From what I've seen for our particular model, the dealers themselves really like bikes and technology, but Harley-Davidson makes it so cost prohibitive for them to get on board. It will be interesting to see what the future brings.
 

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From what I've seen for our particular model, the dealers themselves really like bikes and technology, but Harley-Davidson makes it so cost prohibitive for them to get on board. It will be interesting to see what the future brings.
Only 150 dealers carry the Livewire out of almost 700 dealers at the time the Livewire came out. The ones not carrying the LW made a wise decision. HD made it difficult for the dealers to carry the LW with a large up front expense and an over priced bike. After a year being on the market my dealer has only sold one bike-mine. HD came in and made my dealer sell some their LW's to a leasing company at cost. Hopefully moving the electric motorcycle division to their bicycle group will help sales and hope some of the concept models come out at a lower price point.
 

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If I was 20 years younger I may - may - have waited buying a LW - and even so probably waited only if I had not test-ridden one and then saw the finished product. I put $1000 deposit down more than a year before I could get the real thing, because I was enthralled by the acceleration and handling of the prototypes.

Testriding one is a fatal to the bank balance as is testriding a Hayabusa or a Boss Hoss back in the day. Yes, there are limitations, but so what? I expect the battery life will get longer and maybe even the seat more comfy haha... but "the Perfect is the Enemy of the Good."

I have not enough patience to wait for perfection in EV Motorcycles... 🤪
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
I saw the following Livewire for sale at a local HD dealer for just over $18,000.00 when this dealer sold this bike for about $30,000.00 a short time ago. It only had 313 miles and was basically brand new for sale CHEAP. I spoke with the sales staff and they would not commit to saying that the Livewire will still be available in 2021-2022. The sales staff said the buyer traded it in for a gas bike. They did say that other models were being looked at. The depreciation is very bad. Here is the link: 2020 Harley-Davidson Livewire™ in Livermore, California


GP
 

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Heck, if I was in the US and my job prospects were still pre-Covid, I'd buy that in a heartbeat for the Bride.
 

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I saw the following Livewire for sale at a local HD dealer for just over $18,000.00 when this dealer sold this bike for about $30,000.00 a short time ago. It only had 313 miles and was basically brand new for sale CHEAP. I spoke with the sales staff and they would not commit to saying that the Livewire will still be available in 2021-2022. The sales staff said the buyer traded it in for a gas bike. They did say that other models were being looked at. The depreciation is very bad. Here is the link: 2020 Harley-Davidson Livewire™ in Livermore, California


GP
Well, it seems like those of us who bought early are definitely not doing well.
 

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I blame a lot of this on Harley for making the future of the Livewire seem questionable. There are still rumors that 2022 is the last year for it.
 

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I hope y'all don't get buyer's remorse...

A bike is like a girlfriend. You fell in love with it, you had to have it, it turned out to be not what you expected, but hey, it was a heckuva ride. And really, did you expect perfection?

Now I'm gonna stretch that metaphor to breaking point but hey - now, either cut your losses, or settle down with it and enjoy :)

Me? I love it still. And unlike a GF, it does not resent that I ride other bikes; it does not mind being left wet in the shed after riding; it charges up reliably and always delivers, uh, bang for the bucks invested... ummm, yeah.

I think I will stop this line of reasoning more or less here... a man learns to live less dangerously in his 7th decade.

But wait - Oi! You lot out there - get off my lawn!!!
 

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Please consider writing Harley Davidson with your concerns at [email protected]

This is what I just emailed:

SUBJECT: Future Livewire Production

To Harley Davidson’s CEO and Upper Management (Please Forward),

There is currently a thread on the Harley Davidson Livewire Forum (www.hdlivewireforum.com) discussing concerns that the Livewire is going to be discontinued. While I understand the Livewire was never a monetary investment at $30k+, it is an investment in the future and a pleasure for today.

In attempting to assuage their concerns, I wrote that I remain optimistic Harley will remain liquid, and the Livewire will be around a while (modified and maybe called something else). My main reasoning is from my time in R&D for Freightliner Trucks. We never spent five years in R&D with any intention of dumping something that went into production. We made adjustments. If it was a valid technology, initial profit/non-profit margin aside, we rode out the investment. Daimler AG, parent company of Freightliner, remains the world's largest truck manufacturer because of this mentality.

I'm not in the boardroom with the CEO of Harley (who I hope reads this), but I remain hopeful Harley Davidson knows where the future is heading. And I remain hopeful the battery can be serviced, when that time comes.

All that noted, those on the forum (really all Livewire Owners) feel that if Harley sticks it to them (us), many will not only never buy another Harley, but the group is sure to poison the waters for any future Harley customers in our circle of influence (those who currently love our Livewires). Hopefully, that alone is motivation for Harley Davidson to keep producing a couple/few thousand a year.

I'm writing Harley Davidson Corporate to voice my thoughts on the Livewire and the need to continue production. I don't believe a word politicians have to say, but I do believe our voices matter to Corporate America. And I remain hopeful my future motorcycles will continue to be Harley Davidsons. Please do not let us down.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter,

Brad Higerd, P.E.
Looks like your future bikes will not be Harleys after all....
 

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I think something has been lost in this Livewire transformation. Having collected and restored rare cars with my grandfather since before I could drive, this is exactly how many of his most expensive models came to be. Harley Davidson created something that was non-existent before yesterday, truly limited edition EV's. Those with the first strike emblems (unfortunately not me) stand to gain the most.

And while it is truly just branding as Oldun correctly noted, that rebranding is potentially great for us. And it's great for Harley Davidson, as the engineering teams involved moving forward MUST be distinct. Electrical engineers, which I'm not one, are scoring victories everywhere. Their involvement in the automobile / EV industry is becoming massive. Traditionally ICE mechanical engineers (primarily) will never be qualified to work on the core of a Livewire, but just the surrounding mechanical components, gearbox...

I see this as a great thing. And EVs, as someone else wrote on another thread, are not going away anytime soon.
 

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I think something has been lost in this Livewire transformation. Having collected and restored rare cars with my grandfather since before I could drive, this is exactly how many of his most expensive models came to be. Harley Davidson created something that was non-existent before yesterday, truly limited edition EV's. Those with the first strike emblems (unfortunately not me) stand to gain the most.

And while it is truly just branding as Oldun correctly noted, that rebranding is potentially great for us. And it's great for Harley Davidson, as the engineering teams involved moving forward MUST be distinct. Electrical engineers, which I'm not one, are scoring victories everywhere. Their involvement in the automobile / EV industry is becoming massive. Traditionally ICE mechanical engineers (primarily) will never be qualified to work on the core of a Livewire, but just the surrounding mechanical components, gearbox...

I see this as a great thing. And EVs, as someone else wrote on another thread, are not going away anytime soon.
I am amused by the posts on the main HD forum. I think this is the necessary step, and while nothing is guaranteed, I see this as a good move.

I was in the dealership where I bought my bike picking up some supplies for my other bikes and I was talking to a sales guy. I had my LW out front and he was asking me about it....questions like, can I just plug it into the wall at home or did I have to install something special. I suggested that he learn about the products he was supposed to be selling and he just shrugged and walked away. The dealership cultures were created for a completely different vibe and so it is time to split.
 

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I purchased my LiveWire because it is the only high specification electric motorcycle in Australia at the moment, (also for the torque and lack of maintenance) If I could have I would have preferred a Lightening or Energica as I prefer faired machines, but they offer no warranty in Australia and import issues complicated it so I chose the LiveWire and I do not regret it for one moment.
I will install the fairing I have at some future stage when I have redesigned and modified it to suit the LW.
As a historically non Harley rider I am used to and still feel the sting of rejection from Harley ICE riders.
The two LW dealers here in WA here are ICE orientated except for one sales person, my opinion is that they see LW as an (expensive) toy in a cereal box
The LW will never get kicked out of my home theatre because (my usual argument with the missus), it don't stink or leak and its a work of art.
They (HD) can discontinue LiveWire and I will continue to ride mine and feel that sick feeling in the gut with a smile.
Until something better comes along.........
 

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I purchased my LiveWire because it is the only high specification electric motorcycle in Australia at the moment, If I could have I would have preferred a Lightening or Energica as I prefer faired machines but no warranty in Australia and import issues complicated it so I chose the LiveWire and I do not regret it for one moment.
...completely agree about the LiveWire being the EV bike of necessity in Australasia because the other big manufacturers won't support individual imports. That said, I put my deposit on the LiveWire after demoing one of them back in the US quite a while ago. Because it was/is just a magic bike. I'm lucky enough to have other ICE bikes, not just Harleys, in the stables (literally, the shed on my property used to be a stable for a horse and carriage before it was subdivided) but the others are getting kinda neglected in favour of sitting around on the electric Harley. Already looking forward to how your fairing project works out!
 

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...completely agree about the LiveWire being the EV bike of necessity in Australasia because the other big manufacturers won't support individual imports. That said, I put my deposit on the LiveWire after demoing one of them back in the US quite a while ago. Because it was/is just a magic bike. I'm lucky enough to have other ICE bikes, not just Harleys, in the stables (literally, the shed on my property used to be a stable for a horse and carriage before it was subdivided) but the others are getting kinda neglected in favour of sitting around on the electric Harley. Already looking forward to how your fairing project works out!
My first visit and sit on a LiveWire (prototype) was in 2015 in Prague at a Harley show, I was totally consumed by it.
followed HD's journey of development and then decided in 2020 that I was gonna be a Harley owner.
 

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I bought this bike sight unseen. I was sold years ago. Not for the fact it was harley. The reviews once it came out only confirmed what I expected it would be, and is, a truly fantastic bike.
This transformation has potential. Both potential to be great for us and the bike's line, but also disastrous. The other forums that reference Buell are fair and deserved.
True EV seems here to stay, but the sting of evs being killed multiple times in history is a sting nonetheless. Now we have infrastructure, so evs will remain. But will Livewire. We will have to wait and see. And that wait will be one of nervousness for many of us. Will our parts be available through Livewire? No guarantee. Will Livewire flourish or fail? Will Harley shut it down before it fails? Will some investors or another company aquire it and ruin it? Or will it become the most awesome brand for ev motorcycles the world over? The uncertainty isn't fun, but it's all we have for the next long while.
 

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Mate I chose to buy my LW over building an electric motorcycle, the cost analysis estimated roughly 25000 AUD
and then I would have had to design, build and register it and the build time frame estimate was 2-3 years minimum ( to do a good job).
I purchased the Livewire accepting the fact that Harley-Davidson as a company may go belly up due to the financial and management problems they were having at the time.
I had planned to assess the machine and learn the build as I did not think I would be able to purchase a manual however thanks to the men on here including Oldun I now have both manuals for the LW.
If H-D dump the LW or go broke I don't give a shit as I will continue to maintain and ride this great machine.
I have always tried to be optimistic and if shit happens then I have plan B.
Also I have the advantage of having electronics and networks as my trade so I have a basic understanding of the whole EV concept
Don't worry Kiwi I'll jump the ditch and give ya a hand if shit happens.
 
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