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2022 Livewire being discontinued????

16K views 60 replies 14 participants last post by  gperlow 
#1 ·
Good morning. I read on "motorcycle.com" about the models that Harley is discontinuing in 2022. There are many. The last one rumored is the Livewire. I contacted my rep at HD and asked him about this. He said "I can't comment on H_D's plans". Read the article and it is also on other M/C websites. HD might be looking at a smaller, less expensive EV.

Check with you rep's if you have one and see what they say. Victory had a very fast EV that won at Pikes Peak until Poares shut down for just Indian. Those bikes, where avail, were in the $20,000+ range and were selling for less than $7,00 (used) at Arlen Ness when it was still a dealership. I hope this wasn't a thirty thousand dollar loss.


GP
 
#6 ·
What's the big deal? HD discontinues models every year. The FXDR was in production just 3 years. The Livewire is a sales flop so they'll come out with cheaper electric models if they decide to continue EVs.The Livewire has always been called a halo product but the problem was there were no other electric models to see. I won't feel cheated if the LW gets discontinued as I knew what I was buying.
 
#5 ·
Here are the models on the Harley-Davidson accessories page that list an end-of-run date of 2020 or 2021:
Sporster and Street:
  • Forty-Eight 2010-2021
  • Iron 1200 2018-2021
  • Iron 883 2009-2021
  • Roadster 2016-2020
  • Street 500 2015-2021
  • Street 750 2015-2020
  • Street Rod 2017-2020
Softail:
  • Breakout 114 2018-2020
  • Deluxe 2018-2020
  • FXDR 114 2019-2020
  • Low Rider 1987-2020
  • Street Bob 2018-2020
Touring:
  • Electra Glide 1984-2021
Electric:
  • Livewire 2020-2021
 
#9 ·
If they kill this bike...it will depreciate at a level that will make me sicker than I already am. My dealer said they are selling in 2021. Looks like no changes at all though. I sense this is the beginning of the end. No chance people are going to pay a premium for a bike that Harley looks like they have given up on.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Please consider writing Harley Davidson with your concerns at media@harley-davidson.com

This is what I just emailed:

SUBJECT: Future Livewire Production

To Harley Davidson’s CEO and Upper Management (Please Forward),

There is currently a thread on the Harley Davidson Livewire Forum (www.hdlivewireforum.com) discussing concerns that the Livewire is going to be discontinued. While I understand the Livewire was never a monetary investment at $30k+, it is an investment in the future and a pleasure for today.

In attempting to assuage their concerns, I wrote that I remain optimistic Harley will remain liquid, and the Livewire will be around a while (modified and maybe called something else). My main reasoning is from my time in R&D for Freightliner Trucks. We never spent five years in R&D with any intention of dumping something that went into production. We made adjustments. If it was a valid technology, initial profit/non-profit margin aside, we rode out the investment. Daimler AG, parent company of Freightliner, remains the world's largest truck manufacturer because of this mentality.

I'm not in the boardroom with the CEO of Harley (who I hope reads this), but I remain hopeful Harley Davidson knows where the future is heading. And I remain hopeful the battery can be serviced, when that time comes.

All that noted, those on the forum (really all Livewire Owners) feel that if Harley sticks it to them (us), many will not only never buy another Harley, but the group is sure to poison the waters for any future Harley customers in our circle of influence (those who currently love our Livewires). Hopefully, that alone is motivation for Harley Davidson to keep producing a couple/few thousand a year.

I'm writing Harley Davidson Corporate to voice my thoughts on the Livewire and the need to continue production. I don't believe a word politicians have to say, but I do believe our voices matter to Corporate America. And I remain hopeful my future motorcycles will continue to be Harley Davidsons. Please do not let us down.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter,

Brad Higerd, P.E.
 
#15 ·
I can't get over all this concern over an article on motorcycle.com.So they have an opinion that HD is going to stop production of the LW. Big deal! Another article from Electrex.com says no the LW will live on. What does HD say? HD says, from their web site, "2021 Livewire® coming this summer". Don't jump to conclusions and wait for HD to say something official. Attached a screen shot from HD web site and the electrex.com article.

 

Attachments

#16 ·
Mac Mike,
I actually believe you're right. But I'm not normally one to debate an unknown when it's just as easy to go directly to the source. I suspect there are no plans in the works to discontinue the bike, not with the focus Harley is placing on advertising it, and certainly not with the investment they've made thus far. Add that in China, my fiends tell me they can only get (cheap) electric motorcycles/motorbikes due to the pollution issues, no ICE cars and no ICE motorbikes anymore (unless you're filthy rich and connected to the Regime). The world is changing, and Harley Davidson saw it coming, howbeit with an overpriced version as you continually (and correctly) often note. The rumors go both ways, while Harley Davidson Upper Management is saying nothing about it, just advertising and holding events to sell more.
I see your position; hope you can see mine.
Meanwhile, I suspect we both bought ours with the same considerations: 1) it's crazy fun, and 2) why not.
As for my suggestion to contact the actual people making decisions, I stand by that. Beats any other approach I've ever taken. Works as a Christian as well; when I can talk to the One Who made man to help me with my challenges in life, why wouldn't I?
If I've never shared it on this forum, I enjoy varying opinions and most definitely yours. If I only listened to my own counsel, I would be a very narrow thinker.
Thanks for replying to my post!
Brad
 
#17 ·
I'm not here to debate anything I'm just stating my views on HD. I have no problems with anyones position or views.I just state my view of things related to others positions on the Livewire and HD. We are on the Livewire forum after all.

As for the LW Harley has always stated it is a halo product as I have mentioned many times before. So that statement by HD may be it may not be around for any length of time. Halo products are used to bring people in and see what is available. Harley's mistake was not having anything to back up the LW,as in other EVs, and over pricing the bike. Harley forgot Zero and Energica were already selling electric bike when they came out with Project Livewire in 2014. As I've mentioned countless times in this forum the Energica bikes run circles around the LW. I'm a Harley fanboy so had no interest in an Energica but I'm not afraid to say it is a better bike. I do believe the LW will be discontinued as soon as Harley gets some of their concepts off the drawing board and on the streets. They need cheaper electric models and I can even see them coming out with a scooter type EV.BMW has a nice scooter EV perfect for urban transportation. I do give credit to Harley for being the first major out with an electric bike but I also see when the other major companies come out with their EVs they will be just as good as anything HD puts out.
 
#18 ·
Mac Mike,

Please know there was no sarcasm in my last response. I really do appreciate differing opinions. Given all the modifications you've done on your Livewire, maybe you're an engineer as well? If so, you know engineers thrive by keeping an open mind to differing ideas, whether or not we agree with them all. It's a career trap; well, for all the talented and sought-after engineers I know.

As for my opinion (for what it's worth), I see it problematic we're drawing conclusions from magazines, online articles, Harley advertising terminology..., and not directly from the only people who know. My decision to engage Harley Davidson Management directly (obviously well above Store Managers, who frankly don't know either) is the only possible way I know to even attempt to find out the truth.

Meanwhile, please don't see my using the term "debate" as anything but healthy engagement in a conversation that clearly has some level of interest by anyone who owns a Livewire and on this forum. And looking at the mods you've made to your Livewire, it's clear you like your Harley. In fact, you have some great ideas that Harley should consider in any possible 2022 revision(s) to the bike. Whatever "halo" means to Harley Davidson's CEO, two years is a relatively standard model revision window for most new vehicles, obviously excluding iconic models. It's true for all the major auto manufacturers, most new motorcycles (howbeit often minor), and would be appropriate for the Livewire as well. For starters, not having to pull the entire battery out of the bike with a cherry picker to service it would be a nice revision. And maybe add some mileage on it too, as my real hope is to upgrade as (if) they improve it.

Mike Mike, I really do think of this as a healthy debate, where the term "debate" is not a bad one. As noted above, it's the source of the information we're debating that I think needs more thought.

Again, thank you for your thoughts. I like that you know more than me about the EV's Zero and Energica have made, as well as that company you pointed out that crashed and burned (Victory? ...kind of funny that name didn't hold meaning). Hopefully, Harley's sales surpassing all other US EV motorcycles means something good is on the horizon for the Livewire. As for China, it will be some time before they can really compete with Tesla, their main target. Research current Chinese electric bikes, and you'll know they have a very long way to go to catch-up with Harley's Livewire as well. But with industrial espionage and mass purchases from China continuing as historically true, they'll eventually make something nice. But if you ask me, the news continually points to the fact that they're chasing after Apple and Tesla much harder than Harley Davidson. I'm not even sure they care to make anything like a Livewire with limited sales; China is not wired for small business.

Again, please know I value your and all opinions shared on this site. If I lived in TX, I'd want to grab lunch with you in a Covid-19 safe environment. I really enjoy thoughtful exchanges.

Hope you (and everybody who reads this) has a great start to your (respective) 2021! Meanwhile, I'll continue to reach out directly to Harley. I'm often called relentless and will eventually get a response and gladly share it when I do. This subject is one we'll all be following, regardless.

Brad
 
#20 ·
Well, I guess I am odd man out. I've not needed level 2 or 3 charging in 800 kms, and I'm entirely OK with having a Collectible One-Year-Only Edition.

As long as HD provides the 2020 LW with parts and service for at least 5 years*, I will consider myself ahead of the game :)

*...and even if HD doesn't - this bike is Pure Acceleration Magic for as long as it lasts!
 
#21 ·
Your not the only odd man out. I'm with you. I don't need Level 2 and have plenty Level 3 charging in my area.

If the LW is discontinued so be it. The parts inventory will be around for 5 years. The RESS is warrantied for 5 years and projected lifespan is 10 years. I doubt I'll still be riding bikes in 10 years as I'm getting up there in age.
 
#22 ·
I was lucky enough to own the original Tesla Roadster in 2011. Tesla could have just discontinued the car when the Model S came out, but instead they doubled down and offered several upgrades including a brand new, more energy dense battery and associated components. And this was for a worldwide production run of only ~2400 cars. It was an attempt by Tesla to reward and thank us for taking a chance on them and being early adopters. I don’t know how many Livewires there are out there, and I do know that H-D is a very different company with a very different trajectory, but the optimistic point of view is that H-D supports the bike for several years to come and that either a) they will also offer an upgraded RESS down the line and/or b) there’ll be a decent aftermarket scene for the bike like the one that has formed around the original Roadster. I for one intend to keep my Livewire for long time - it’s a piece of history.
 
#23 ·
Wholly agree! It is a piece of history. And it's a turn in thinking that is sure to become more justified as gas prices climb back up to a new normal, guessing approximately $4/gal minimum everywhere by the end of summer 2021 and $5/gal min in CA. (My guess for 2022 is $5/gal+ by August everywhere, and $6/gal+ in CA.) Meanwhile, I intend to keep my Livewire (or an upgrade) until retiring to South America, then maybe I'll go back to petro/ICE with off-road tires?
But ultimately, the Livewire will be the motorcycle American history notes as the changing point from ICE to EV (Tesla for bikers). History won't likely even mention the other brands, just the iconic Livewire. Harley Davidson is legendary worldwide, and the Livewire only adds to the fame.

Meanwhile, I still have a CEO to engage...(More positively than in the email...)
 
#24 ·
For what it's worth, my perspective is that electric is absolutely not going anywhere but up. I personally haven't heard about the LW being discontinued, but I can say with relative confidence that there is no shortage of electricity in H-D's future. Y'all can take a little comfort in knowing that if the LW doesn't make it past 2022, there'll be something even better to take its place.

I'm still pretty new to the place but I'm a huge EV advocate and if electric was going away, I'd probably know it (and I'd yell like hell about it). It's a huge company with honestly pretty daunting levels of hush-hush but I can probably say there might be a bit of a rollercoaster of emotions ahead. We all love the electric future, and this is absolutely the decade to exist in if you're an electric nerd (or care a quarter of a heck about efficiency and fun). ;)

FWIW, I was also pretty disappointed about the 2021 launch event not including any mention of electrics. I think that was a mistake.

(disclaimer: this is purely personal opinion and should not be taken as an official statement of any kind, please, for the love of god I love my job, lol)
 
#25 ·
The LW will be discontinued soon to hopefully be replaced by a less expensive model. HD had several concepts posted online until recently. The big problem with HD is the money crunch it is under and the current management. The change to a boutique brand is not the way to go. I think HD is still interested in EV but on a smaller scale. I think the best option for HD in the electric realm is to come out with a reasonably priced scooter.That would make more sense for an urban commuter that is not interested in a true motorcycle.
 
#35 ·
LOL.

As for how you approach Harley Davidson, your call. I'm actually trying to strike-up a conversation with lead of R&D for Harley Davidson, Bryan Niketh. I'll write the CEO a hard copy letter shortly, as I believe those, when short and well-worded, often get on the desk.

Meanwhile, I'm happy some of you are engaging HD Leadership directly. They undoubtedly have AA's, but AA's still see the value in passing along important information, like concerns voiced by current and long-term HD customers. Guys like you.
 
#37 ·
Update: Feb 10th, 2021. My phone rang and I saw it was a 1 800 number. I figured it would be a telemarketer, but answered none the less. It was Debbie from Harley Davidson, She said that Jochen had read my letter and it was well received. She said at the moment, they have no plans to discontinue the Livewire and are still committed to electric. She said there may be tweaks and changes, but the rumour of the Livewire is exactly that, a rumour as of today. With so many companies that do not respond, I found it refreshing that Harley Davidson Motor Company took the time to call me. She asked if I was enjoying riding my LW and I said being in Canada, I cannot wait for the snow to melt, but I plan to soon. She said they all are ready to get out and ride. I believe Jochen is doing exactly what needs to be done there, including putting motor clothes exclusively at the dealer and not on Amazon.
 
#39 ·
Pepper, thank you! I'll engage the CEO eventually regarding the serviceability of the battery once they start to go bad, along with something to encourage him that his most elite Harley followers are the Livewire owners who took a bold and costly step with Harley Davidson as part of an investment in tomorrow. Just a gentle reminder that we're in this thing together.
 
#40 ·
Absolutely, thanks for reaching out. Today I stopped by a local H-D dealer who doesn't carry the LiveWire. As usual, there was a salesperson who was super interested and got my usual "class" about the bike. While she was very enthusiastic, she seemed to feel like the owner of the dealer simply wasn't interested in investing all the money required by H-D to carry it. It reminded me of when I had a Buell, and H-D dealers weren't interested in dealing with them. Harley-Davidson made it difficult for them to deal with Buell products, and eventually killed the brand. It's just easier for dealers to stick with selling the traditional chrome and steel.
 
#41 ·
From Forbes on Jan 29, 2021:
"Joe Biden has announced that he has signed an executive order that will require the replacement of the entire fleet of federal vehicles with US-built electric cars, vans and trucks; in all, some 645,000 nationwide."

Bob, my local dealership is the same as the one you described above. They aren't ready to join the EV community, not yet. But political opinions aside, we're in a wave of EV-friendly government leaders from the USA to China. I doubt the resistance of my local Savannah HD dealership to sell EVs will play much part in the future of the technology.
 
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