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Discussion Starter #1
Just something I want to check with you fellow owners. I've charged my bike 3 times so far at my dealer's ChargePoint DC charger. Each time I've started the charging session the info panel tells me to unplug and then replug to the bike as it has detected an error. The HD Connect app also sends a message that the bike is drawing little charge and the battery may be full. I mentioned this to my dealer and they are checking with ChargePoint as they want to know if it is a charger or bike problem.

One quick note on charging if you have not read your owners manual. Best practice for charging is keep as close to a 4:1 ratio between level 1 and level 3 DC. Four level 1 to one level 3 charges. Now you may not know who produces the batteries but it is Samsung. The interesting thing of all this is that Samsung can monitor our charging rates from the LW electronics. Yes, the LW sends info to the cloud! The upshot of all this is that Samsung can void the battery warranty if a particular bike is getting mostly level 3 charges and HD has no say in this. I did find out at this point in time a battery replacement is $8000 US.
 

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I have charged 3 times at dealer (2 times Orlando 1 time Ormond Beach) from approx 30% to full and 1 time at a regular ChargePoint at Hollywood Studios for about 4 hours. Only the first charge was an error and I assumed it was because I didn't plug it in all the way. I didn't get any of the messages you received I just knew it wasn't drawing juice correctly. I am just going to charge at home when it gets to 20% like I do on my Model X and charge up to 80% like Tesla suggests. Traveling I'll use the dealer chargers and if I take the bike to the mall or the parks when I am there I'll plug in. They put out a ton of press releases saying "Harley-Davidson says the LiveWire's battery has a five-year, unlimited mileage warranty. H-D says the longevity of the battery is ten years, depending on how much it's used. Also, the LiveWire comes with 500 kW of free charging at Electrify America fast-charging stations, though you only have two years to use it. " I'd like to see them try and get us to pay another $8k before that expires.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have charged 3 times at dealer (2 times Orlando 1 time Ormond Beach) from approx 30% to full and 1 time at a regular ChargePoint at Hollywood Studios for about 4 hours. Only the first charge was an error and I assumed it was because I didn't plug it in all the way. I didn't get any of the messages you received I just knew it wasn't drawing juice correctly. I am just going to charge at home when it gets to 20% like I do on my Model X and charge up to 80% like Tesla suggests. Traveling I'll use the dealer chargers and if I take the bike to the mall or the parks when I am there I'll plug in. They put out a ton of press releases saying "Harley-Davidson says the LiveWire's battery has a five-year, unlimited mileage warranty. H-D says the longevity of the battery is ten years, depending on how much it's used. Also, the LiveWire comes with 500 kW of free charging at Electrify America fast-charging stations, though you only have two years to use it. " I'd like to see them try and get us to pay another $8k before that expires.
I also do most of my charging at home. The battery does have a 5 year warranty and 10 year life. I'm sure after 10 years the replacement cost will be lower as battery technology improves. My point was for the 5 year warranty span where one has to stay close to the 4:1 ratio of level 1 to level 3 as Samsung can void the warranty if that is abused.
 

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"One quick note on charging if you have not read your owners manual. Best practice for charging is keep as close to a 4:1 ratio between level 1 and level 3 DC. Four level 1 to one level 3 charges."

Is it really ideal to do the 4:1 ratio charging? The owner's manual says the following:

  • When recharging the RESS, choose Level 1 (110V to 220V) charging when possible. Level 1 charging causes the least amount of stress to the RESS.
  • The RESS does not limit the number of times a Level 3 DC fast charger (480V) can be used. However, more frequent DC fast charging will stress the RESS more than Level 1 charging. If possible, avoid using DC fast charge, exclusively. The suggested best practice is to alternate your charging between Level 1 and Level 3 DC Fast Charge in a 4:1 ratio (4 Level 1 charges to every 1 Level 3 fast charge).
Based on the first line it appears that the ideal practice is to ONLY charge using a Level 1 charger. I take the second bullet point to mean that if you do use Level 3 charging, it is best to use the 4:1 ratio.

Has anyone clarified this with an engineer (not a salesman)?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Folks, remember that DC charging will shorten battery life. Also, warrantees typically cover manufacturing defects. So lets say someone does nothing but DC charging for 2 years and the battery fails. Since the LW keeps tract of charging Samsung can say the battery was abused by the owner and not honor the warranty. I was told by my service people that Samsung has final say on battery issues.

My concern is on long trips that someone may try out on the LW. For example if someone would like to do a 200 mile round trip, 400 miles total. To do this trip in a reasonable amount of time one would have to do it with DC charging and that would be 5.7 charges at 70 miles per charge for the 400 miles. To keep in the 4:1 ratio we would have to charge at home 20 times before trying another long trip. I asked my white glove rep to check if that 4:1 ratio should be in hours opposed to times charged. Still waiting on an answer.
 

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Folks, remember that DC charging will shorten battery life. Also, warrantees typically cover manufacturing defects. So lets say someone does nothing but DC charging for 2 years and the battery fails. Since the LW keeps tract of charging Samsung can say the battery was abused by the owner and not honor the warranty. I was told by my service people that Samsung has final say on battery issues.

My concern is on long trips that someone may try out on the LW. For example if someone would like to do a 200 mile round trip, 400 miles total. To do this trip in a reasonable amount of time one would have to do it with DC charging and that would be 5.7 charges at 70 miles per charge for the 400 miles. To keep in the 4:1 ratio we would have to charge at home 20 times before trying another long trip. I asked my white glove rep to check if that 4:1 ratio should be in hours opposed to times charged. Still waiting on an answer.
The 4:1 ratio is in relation to time spent charging not how many charges you do. So if you spend 4 hours on a slow level one charge, then one hour on the level 3 DC fast charge to be at 4:1. I've been through all the Harley-Davidson University training in Milwaukee and the engineers explained that the 4:1 ratio recommendation relates to time.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The 4:1 ratio is in relation to time spent charging not how many charges you do. So if you spend 4 hours on a slow level one charge, then one hour on the level 3 DC fast charge to be at 4:1. I've been through all the Harley-Davidson University training in Milwaukee and the engineers explained that the 4:1 ratio recommendation relates to time.
Great to hear that it's hours vs. times. My WG engineer still hasn't gotten back to me on that.
 

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The 4:1 ratio is in relation to time spent charging not how many charges you do. So if you spend 4 hours on a slow level one charge, then one hour on the level 3 DC fast charge to be at 4:1. I've been through all the Harley-Davidson University training in Milwaukee and the engineers explained that the 4:1 ratio recommendation relates to time.
So if I'm understanding this correctly, it sounds like the 4:1 ratio really is kind of meaningless assuming you charge at home on even a semi-regular basis? For me, I've charged 5 times for a total of about 30 hours at home (I haven't used a fast charger yet since most of my rides are relatively short), so in order to violate the 4:1 ratio I'd have to fast charge about 7 hours (which would probably be 7 complete charges or about 500 highway miles) before I'd go over the recommended charge ratio.

It seems like the take-home point is that you shouldn't exclusively charge using a fast charger.
 
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