EVSE 120 AND 240?

2576 Views 46 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Wavshrdr, 3 mo ago

Menoche

Discussion Starter · Apr 14, 2022

Guys,
I'm having doubts.... the documentation on the EVSE says the input is only 120V, but the tag on the cable of the EVSE says input 120/240 with 12/16 amps...
I tripped all 15amps breaker in the location I am in so I am hooked with an extension on the microwave outlet which is 20Amps.

now... if the EVSE can really be plugged in a 220amps, that would mean I could hook into the exterior 220outlet for EV chargers. but is it? which to I believe? the book or the Label on the EVSE cable?

Phil

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Adventures on Zero

· #21 · 9 mo ago

Wavshrdr said:
It might be worth buying one of the portable 7 or 10kW CCS chargers. Looks like I can pick one up for a few grand. Doing a bit of research to find a good option. If I can do it for under 3k, I am in. It would also work with Energica as well and a few others.

For home use??

Wavshrdr

· #22 · 9 mo ago (Edited)

Yes, for home use. I don't need massive output, just something around 7-10kW would work well. Basically the somewhere around the rate they should have done L2. If they had done 6kW for L2 I'd be fine.

The Setec supports single phase power.

Adventures on Zero

· #23 · 9 mo ago

Wavshrdr said:
Yes, for home use. I don't need massive output, just something around 7-10kW would work well. Basically the somewhere around the rate they should have done L2. If they had done 6kW for L2 I'd be fine.

The Setec supports single phase power.

I looked up the SETEC and wish they would post the weight and dimensions. I know they used those on Long Way Up, but were carried in the support vehicles. Do you not have a capable DC network in your area?

Wavshrdr

· #24 · 9 mo ago

There are L3 chargers but the point is to basically have L3 charging but at a slower rate. It won't be as stressful as dumping 50kW into the pack. Basically I am trying to work around the slow L2 charging times but without the stress of feeding through a firehose to the battery.

So something like a 7-10kW CCS connection would basically give me about the L2 charge rates it should have supported from the beginning. I could easily charge the battery in about 2 hours from 0%. It isn't a wasted cost as I am still considering and Energica and their L2 charging rates are pretty slow.

The only fairly well supported electric motorcycles that have decent L2 charging are the Zeros. I think the LW was a much better put together bike than the SR series so I bought the Harley.

Menoche

Discussion Starter · #25 · 9 mo ago

Hmmm even if you hook up to a 50kw station, the maximum you’ll reach is about 22kw and then after about 2h-20minutes in, it’ll drop to 15 then 10,8, etc as the temperature of the battery increases.

a slower CCS charger at home which would give 5kwh would, indeed, cause a lot less stress on the battery and would be 4 times faster than a 1.4kwh EVSE (L1 or L2)

money wise now, not sure it makes sense as the SETEC is about 5000$ (CAD) which, in Quebec, is the equivalent of 4000 charges on EVSE at home…. That’s 10 years worth of charging if you do everyday!!!!!

time wise? Yes, depending on the temperature, it’s between 10 and 12 hours from zero %… with a SETEC at 5 kWh, it would take a bit more than 3 hours. How often do you need to charge in 3 hours at home? in my personal case.. once a month perhaps?

Then again, it would be very helpful when going on vacation so you can hook it up to the cabin or wherever you have 120V… which is usually max 30 amps…so you’d get max 3.6kwh which is still more than double the evse.

What I would appreciate more is a slow charging battery pack which could dump 8-10kwh CCS on the bike and which I could bring on vacation in the winter… tow the bike AND power pack… we‘d get a lot more flexibility in our trip destination!!!

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Wavshrdr

· #26 · 9 mo ago

TBH I have more money than time. From a purely economic perspective, it doesn't make sense unless I look at the reduced degradation of the battery instead of throwing it on public CCS charger at a higher rate. The problem is I can't always plan when I ride and if I forget to plug it well enough in advance, I might not be able to ride it. No L3 CCS chargers are really close to me and then I'd have to set there for at least 40 min anyway. Not the way I want to start a ride.

Besides the Setec there are other options. I've seen some on the Chinese site that are around the low $2k US price range. At that price range it makes a lot more sense from a purely economics perspective.

Phaedrus

· #27 · 9 mo ago

Unless I'm missing something, the only single phase Setec Level 3 is a 10kw portable. Which would have to be charged up just like the Livewire, before it could be used to charge the Livewire.

And the battery degradation problem is related to battery heat during charging, not rate. So, while higher rate may produce more heat in a passively cooled battery, I guess the question would be whether a lower Level 3 charging rate drops battery temp enough to reduce degradation?

I'm not seeing any advantages in picking up a Setec portable for home use with the Livewire. Seems simpler to just get in the habit of plugging in the Livewire at the end of each ride. What am I missing?

Wavshrdr

· #28 · 9 mo ago

You don't charge up the Setec. It has no internal battery. It requires an AC input. It should be able to reduce my charging times by a factor of at least 5-6. So I could easily charge in ~2 hours from 0-100%.

My thought it is the lower charging rate would be easier on the battery, result in less heat. If you've followed the Energicas at all, they basically get 1 fast charge (at least on previous models, not sure on the 2022's) and then the batteries warm up so much it kills the charing rate for the next charge to the point there isn't much benefit to it.

Setec is not the only one I'm considering but it was easy to use as an example. My thought is the lower charger would reduce the temps while charging. Thus putting less stress on the battery while charging. I plan to use a fan to help with the passive cooling which should additionally help manage charging. I've reached out to Setec to see if I can reduce the output if I want to maybe 5 or 7kW.

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xophere

· #29 · 9 mo ago

I would expect there would be mods to cool the battery soon. Seems like reasonable todo to help the situation. Clip on fans? Aftermarket water cooling?

Phaedrus

· #30 · 9 mo ago

Wavshrdr said:
You don't charge up the Setec. It has no internal battery. It requires an AC input. It should be able to reduce my charging times by a factor of at least 5-6. So I could easily charge in ~2 hours from 0-100%.

My thought it is the lower charging rate would be easier on the battery, result in less heat. If you've followed the Energicas at all, they basically get 1 fast charge (at least on previous models, not sure on the 2022's) and then the batteries warm up so much it kills the charing rate for the next charge to the point there isn't much benefit to it.

Setec is not the only one I'm considering but it was easy to use as an example. My thought is the lower charger would reduce the temps while charging. Thus putting less stress on the battery while charging. I plan to use a fan to help with the passive cooling which should additionally help manage charging. I've reached out to Setec to see if I can reduce the output if I want to maybe 5 or 7kW.

So, what does one of these gadgets cost?

Does it take a 45 or 50 amp 240v subpanel to operate?

And, does it have software updates to handshake with the Livewire, to avoid the charging problems that some people are having with some Electrify America, ChargePoint, and other chargers?

Adventures on Zero

· #31 · 9 mo ago

xophere said:
I would expect there would be mods to cool the battery soon. Seems like reasonable todo to help the situation. Clip on fans? Aftermarket water cooling?

Reactions: 1

xophere

· #32 · 9 mo ago

That is a great video I had forgotten it had those water coolers.

Reactions: 1

Menoche

Discussion Starter · #33 · 9 mo ago

Ohhhh i WANT those water coolers!!!!!

Reactions: 2

Travesty

· #34 · 4 mo ago

4

I have been emailing Setec this week and the 10KW is what they recommend for Single Phase 240v home charging the LiveWire. According to the Sales Manager Mila Cao, they are made to order (takes a week) and cost $2200 USD + shipping, (~$3000 CND). She included a pic of one plugged into the LiveWire.

Not sure what the weight is, it looks a bit large to carry on the bike but if you had a small trailer you could use all the free L2 chargers and plug into those

I attached the data sheet they emailed me as well.

Product Sleeve Waist Font Belt

Tire Wheel Helmet Vehicle Motor vehicle

Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive exterior Gas Automotive lighting

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adventuresonzero

· #35 · 4 mo ago

Travesty said:
I have been emailing Setec this week and the 10KW is what they recommend for Single Phase 240v home charging the LiveWire. According to the Sales Manager Mila Cao, they are made to order (takes a week) and cost $2200 USD + shipping, (~$3000 CND). She included a pic of one plugged into the LiveWire.

Not sure what the weight is, it looks a bit large to carry on the bike but if you had a small trailer you could use all the free L2 chargers and plug into those

I attached the data sheet they emailed me as well.

View attachment 1402 View attachment 1403

View attachment 1401

Those were modified by Morgan Vetter to work with the long way up LiveWires, stock SETECs will not work with the LiveWire

Travesty

· #36 · 4 mo ago

Perhaps they have changed the device to make it work with Livewire? The Sales manager wrote:

Hello,

Good Day .
Thanks for interesting in our DC charger .
1, Our EV fast charger can charge Harley Davidson LiveWire well .

2, Do you mean you only have single phase 240Vac grid power ?
In that case you can only use our 10KW portable DC charger .
Attached is datasheet of our 10KW portable charger

I have just emailed her again for confirmation on whether or not the device will need to be modified. If this works out of the box I can think of a number of useful applications for this.

xophere

· #37 · 4 mo ago

I will believe it when one of us use it. Ccs barely works on the street. I am hopeful.

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adventuresonzero

· #38 · 4 mo ago

xophere said:
I will believe it when one of us use it. Ccs barely works on the street. I am hopeful.

What region? Pretty much all CCS is working in my area, sans the occasional single stall that’s down

adventuresonzero

· #39 · 4 mo ago

Travesty said:
Perhaps they have changed the device to make it work with Livewire? The Sales manager wrote:

I have just emailed her again for confirmation on whether or not the device will need to be modified. If this works out of the box I can think of a number of useful applications for this.

I would search a little more. Someone else on this forum bought one and is selling/sold it on FB I believe, could not get it to work on the LW. I’m on the road at the moment, but I saw it recently.

Travesty

· #40 · 4 mo ago

adventuresonzero said:
I would search a little more. Someone else on this forum bought one and is selling/sold it on FB I believe, could not get it to work on the LW. I’m on the road at the moment, but I saw it recently.

I think Wavshrdr has one in shipping now.

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