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Discussion Starter #1
Thinking about the long-term, what sort of warranty term should we expect the lithium-ion battery to have, how long should a battery like this last us till it needs to be changed, what might it cost for a LiveWire replacement battery?
 

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For the sake of comparison, what are other motorcycle companies offering for warranties?


For apples-to-apples, lets stick to electric motorcycle warranties.


Brammo offers a 5-year, 50,000-mile warranty that retroactively applies not only to new purchases, but to all previously purchased motorcycles. Furthermore, the warranty transfers for free to the next owner, or the next, or the next.
http://www.brammo.com/battery_warranty/


Zero Motorcycles also offers a 5-year, 100,000-mile (Zero S, SR, DS) or 50,000-mile (Zero FX) battery warranty, but a fee must be paid for the warranty to transfer to the next owner.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/warranty/


Mission Motorcycles offers a 2-year, 60,000-mile battery warranty.
https://www.mission-motorcycles.com/r
https://www.mission-motorcycles.com/rs


Lito Green Motion offers a 2-year warranty, but not specifically for the battery.
http://www.litogreenmotion.com/faq


Brutus, which offers electric cruisers with more battery capacity, more speed, and more range, unfortunately says nothing about a warranty.
http://brutusmotorcycle.com
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks a lot for posting this, it provides a great look at what to expect. Getting a 5 year/xx,xxx mile warranty from harley on the livewire would be awesome.
 

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5 years for the warranty sounds pretty fair to me. 2 years is a little worrying. The length of warranty that a company is willing to give you really says something about how much they believe in their product. After all, if the product doesn't break down then the warranty will not cost the manufacturer anything. You need to believe that your product is going to work for more than 2 years if you want me to believe it is a good quality product.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ESPECIALLY since it is 'new' having a lengthy warranty term like a 5 year term can really get people to buy it as they will feel that they really have not much to worry about for those years. In turn it can help them really kick off sales and be the leader they want to in this segment and REALLY raise the bar.
 

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or the longer the warranty the more worried you should be. Longer means they are worried about consumers screaming bloody murder. Remember something that doesn't break needs no warranty at all ;)
 

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or the longer the warranty the more worried you should be. Longer means they are worried about consumers screaming bloody murder. Remember something that doesn't break needs no warranty at all ;)
being a new product it will need it to have people more at ease, as everyone knows new products like this do show up more problems than one that's already a few years into production
 

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Discussion Starter #8
or the longer the warranty the more worried you should be. Longer means they are worried about consumers screaming bloody murder. Remember something that doesn't break needs no warranty at all ;)
that a reason for me to get rid of it before the warranty is up, i hate to think how much things will cost without the aid of warranty.
 

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A long warranty on the entire bike would be seen as a plus to me. Though even more important is the knowledge upfront of the expected life of the batteries and replacement cost when their time is up.

Ideally, getting the batteries to recharge at or near the typical refuel time for an I.C.E. powered machine should be a goal. The longer the recharge time, the greater the battery capacity (mileage) should should be. Alternately, a lesser capacity battery could be tolerated if you had a quick recharge. Only a large capacity battery with short recharge cycle will make for a near seamless transition from the convenience of the I.C.E. infrastructure. The other alternates are workable but will require adjustments of lifestyle/distance traveling abilities.

Another way could be that nobody ever actually owns the batteries. They would be changed for fresh with each 'refuel' stop. That requires a major infrastructure investment but then again so does any electric idea including the recharge points that electric cars use.

Now to really go off the dream end of the scale. Wireless charging/direct power supply as you drive down the road. Bikes could be very light without any batteries or only a bare minimum for traveling to and from the 'grid'. Tron lightcycles anyone?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
A long warranty on the entire bike would be seen as a plus to me. Though even more important is the knowledge upfront of the expected life of the batteries and replacement cost when their time is up.

Ideally, getting the batteries to recharge at or near the typical refuel time for an I.C.E. powered machine should be a goal. The longer the recharge time, the greater the battery capacity (mileage) should should be. Alternately, a lesser capacity battery could be tolerated if you had a quick recharge. Only a large capacity battery with short recharge cycle will make for a near seamless transition from the convenience of the I.C.E. infrastructure. The other alternates are workable but will require adjustments of lifestyle/distance traveling abilities.

Another way could be that nobody ever actually owns the batteries. They would be changed for fresh with each 'refuel' stop. That requires a major infrastructure investment but then again so does any electric idea including the recharge points that electric cars use.

Now to really go off the dream end of the scale. Wireless charging/direct power supply as you drive down the road. Bikes could be very light without any batteries or only a bare minimum for traveling to and from the 'grid'. Tron lightcycles anyone?
I know tesla wanted to setup charging stations that not only tesla owners can use but just about anyone, and they're going to start building them along main routes that take people from one major city to the other.
 

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I know tesla wanted to setup charging stations that not only tesla owners can use but just about anyone, and they're going to start building them along main routes that take people from one major city to the other.
I think that the whole charging station thing is just a matter of companies deciding to go with one standardized plug instead of competing with each other and having a whole bunch of different plugs, kinda like what happened with cell phone chargers.
 

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Well as soon as phones became 'smart' they needed to transfer data as well as power so the little usb ports were useful. Then the european union (i think) mandated standardized connectors. I liked the usb on my old pre-smart phone but can't stand the micro size usb's on my logitech products. Seems fragile and a pain in the ass to connect. Definitely favor Apple's Lightning connector for ease of use and durability.

Only way I see a singular design charging connection taking over is some company will have to dominate the market enough for everyone to just comply. The feds haven't been leading the way in the field and thusly haven't already developed a standard available for all to use. They might stick their noses in and mandate something, for better or worse.

Maybe with Tesla opening up their designs for other's use they may position themselves as the default standard by being the least expensive option for any startup or established manufacturer.
 

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Tesla opening patents is more for the benfit of Tesla than anything. The infrastructue is difficult to justify but by opening the patents you now widen the scope of those operating on the same wavelength which makes it much easier to attempt to find a common solution. (read funding ;))

Personally many of the promised solutions to electrification sound entirely far fetched. Battery swaps, sure but we're not talking about a USB port, These batteries are dense and large, read HEAVY. I guess thats one way to goose the jobs number, give everyone a job at a electric "fuel" station as a pseudo NASCAR pit crew battery swapper.

This all requires energy and infrastructure... BIG TIME
 

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No doubt that Tesla sees it to his advantage. If others see profit in it for themselves they will jump in. Making money is always a good motivator.

Now trying to picture Shell, Mobil, RaceTrack, etc recharge stations is difficult but believe that if/when the tide turns they will find some way to keep their money train rolling.

Of course any recharge option beyond a 110v outlet requires extra investment. I've never said building a new infrastructure would be cheap or easy. Lets face it, costs of travel are always going to get higher in all likelihood. It's really the only way we've gotten to this point. Otherwise no-one but the ultra green fanatics would looking at electric.
 

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No doubt that Tesla sees it to his advantage. If others see profit in it for themselves they will jump in. Making money is always a good motivator.

Now trying to picture Shell, Mobil, RaceTrack, etc recharge stations is difficult but believe that if/when the tide turns they will find some way to keep their money train rolling.

Of course any recharge option beyond a 110v outlet requires extra investment. I've never said building a new infrastructure would be cheap or easy. Lets face it, costs of travel are always going to get higher in all likelihood. It's really the only way we've gotten to this point. Otherwise no-one but the ultra green fanatics would looking at electric.
well and above all thats the big prohibiter IMO, if electric transportation wants any hope of success it needs to "beat" conventional mobility on price, something I personally don't see happening. Not when the infrastructure and manufacture of these "green" technologies are piggy backing on the "dirty" ones.

But then, like you said, it becomes a question of how high? Oil will continue to move upwards as net energy declines, but as net energy declines it has a multiplier on electric technologies that depend on back ground hydrocarbon inputs. And its not like running an electric vehicle is cost less, as more and more people load into electric vehicles its going to spike demand for electricity itself which will then start to see its price rise as demand increases. Then we need to ask is electricity dependant on hydrocarbons as well? Absolutely, so THAT is also subject to rising costs of hydrocarbons.

At the end of the day it may be more financially prudent to continue consuming hydrocarbons until they no longer exists. Especially if what's green is going to bleed you dry!
 

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Beating conventional ways is the way to go.
Too bad that a lot of it depends on development of infrastructure here and we clearly know what the state of that is
 

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It's reasons like the above that I like the approach of some of the big car makers out there that aren't trying to tackle the electric car segment like how others are, instead they're focusing on what is proven to work for years down the road.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
It's reasons like the above that I like the approach of some of the big car makers out there that aren't trying to tackle the electric car segment like how others are, instead they're focusing on what is proven to work for years down the road.
Are hybrid systems what you mean?
That is what's most appropriate for these times and for years to come.
 
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