Livewire Forums banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I sincerely hope not...but with the MoCo struggling to find a path it is a concern. The new CEO was a proponent of electric bikes early on and I hope he sticks to this parallel line. Especially since it looks like Indian is getting back into this space. I am not sure what to think, as most seem lukewarm on this path. Given the huge demand for bicycles and altering traffic patterns for bicycles in cities around the world, to me it is a more natural progression to an electric bicycle or motorcycle than a traditional motorcycle and provides an excellent gateway experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
I sincerely hope not...but with the MoCo struggling to find a path it is a concern. The new CEO was a proponent of electric bikes early on and I hope he sticks to this parallel line. Especially since it looks like Indian is getting back into this space. I am not sure what to think, as most seem lukewarm on this path. Given the huge demand for bicycles and altering traffic patterns for bicycles in cities around the world, to me it is a more natural progression to an electric bicycle or motorcycle than a traditional motorcycle and provides an excellent gateway experience.
The new CEO, Jochen Zeitz, is from the group that overpriced the Livewire. If they come out with electric bicycles they will be overpriced also. The cellphone generation is not interested in motorcycles. Not much Harley can do as the core riders are getting older and will not be riding much longer. As for EV motorcycles, once the Asian companies come out with their models expect them to be priced less and blow past HD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
I look at the Livewire as a step towards something different for H-D. It's a really cool offering, not like the gas Honda I had to buy when younger in school and needed cheap transportation. Personally, I think the speed at which H-D is adjusting has never been faster. They built a USB plug into my 2018 Fat Bob; H-D of the past would not have done that on a Fat Bob. I personally don't see H-D going away until a lot of other businesses do first, but I'm sure there will be challenges ahead, for them, their competitors, and for us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
I look at the Livewire as a step towards something different for H-D. It's a really cool offering, not like the gas Honda I had to buy when younger in school and needed cheap transportation. Personally, I think the speed at which H-D is adjusting has never been faster. They built a USB plug into my 2018 Fat Bob; H-D of the past would not have done that on a Fat Bob. I personally don't see H-D going away until a lot of other businesses do first, but I'm sure there will be challenges ahead, for them, their competitors, and for us.
To be in the business that HD is in, motorcycle manufacturing, they are in the worst possible condition compared to their competitors. Their competition is in way better financial situation than HD due to the fact of being part of a big company which produces more the just motorcycles. Honda, BMW, Yamaha,Kawasaki,etc, I'm sure we can name other products they manufacture.HD they maybe can sell a ton more expensive t-shirts./s Seeing the whole motorcycle industry is in a slump and not improving soon HD will be one of the first to go under.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Manufacturing motorcycles right now is definitely not the same as toilet paper, or food. My belief, H-D will ride this out. They've established the US name-brand motorcycle (no one in our lifetimes will replace), H-D financial services is still profitable, H-D actually makes good products, and the US gov't has a history of bailing out iconic American manufacturing institutions, when needed. I could certainly be wrong, but I suspect it's an opportunity for H-D to restructure and maybe even re-invent Itself a bit. I have a friend who can't wait for the Pan America to come out. A lighter, leaner, technologically adroit, team of profound engineers, business minds... can find their way through. They've done it before.

In an ironic twist, some news agencies are reporting that there's a growing backlog and demand in motorcycle training courses for new students throughout the US. Some of that is certainly related to COVID-19 cancelling/postponing classes, but it leaves hope motorcycles in general may become more prevalent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
Manufacturing motorcycles right now is definitely not the same as toilet paper, or food. My belief, H-D will ride this out. They've established the US name-brand motorcycle (no one in our lifetimes will replace), H-D financial services is still profitable, H-D actually makes good products, and the US gov't has a history of bailing out iconic American manufacturing institutions, when needed. I could certainly be wrong, but I suspect it's an opportunity for H-D to restructure and maybe even re-invent Itself a bit. I have a friend who can't wait for the Pan America to come out. A lighter, leaner, technologically adroit, team of profound engineers, business minds... can find their way through. They've done it before.

In an ironic twist, some news agencies are reporting that there's a growing backlog and demand in motorcycle training courses for new students throughout the US. Some of that is certainly related to COVID-19 cancelling/postponing classes, but it leaves hope motorcycles in general may become more prevalent.
HD has already begun to restructure. More layoff expected into next year.

As for the Pan America, expect it to be another flop like the Livewire. Have to give credit to HD for being the first major out with an electric bike. With the Pan America HD will be competing with an abundance of adventure bikes in the market. Expect an over weight over priced motorcycle along the HD lines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
By restructuring, I mean more. The layoffs were probably coming anyway. H-D wasn't lean going into a turbulent world economy, which started before COVID-19.

As for Livewire being a “flop,” I think we’re way too early in this process to make that statement. In the world of electric motorcycles currently on the market, BMW is the only other big player to throw chips on the table. Coming from a technology transfer background, I’ve seen less useful technologies make a fortune, as well as obvious winners lose big. I provided tech transfer services for the US DOE, Freightliner Trucks, and Clemson University, and it’s amazing watching the transfer of research and ingenuity to the marketplace. H-D has won a victory with the Livewire already, no matter what happens next.

As for the pending Pan America, you may be right. But my friend, who loves that style bike, thinks it’s going to be his next adventure bike. He already expects it will be one of the more expensive versions when it makes the market.

H-D is in a challenging time, but they have the ability to get through it. If I didn’t believe that, I wouldn’t have bought two Harleys within the last 24 months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
By restructuring, I mean more. The layoffs were probably coming anyway. H-D wasn't lean going into a turbulent world economy, which started before COVID-19.

As for Livewire being a “flop,” I think we’re way too early in this process to make that statement. In the world of electric motorcycles currently on the market, BMW is the only other big player to throw chips on the table. Coming from a technology transfer background, I’ve seen less useful technologies make a fortune, as well as obvious winners lose big. I provided tech transfer services for the US DOE, Freightliner Trucks, and Clemson University, and it’s amazing watching the transfer of research and ingenuity to the marketplace. H-D has won a victory with the Livewire already, no matter what happens next.

As for the pending Pan America, you may be right. But my friend, who loves that style bike, thinks it’s going to be his next adventure bike. He already expects it will be one of the more expensive versions when it makes the market.

H-D is in a challenging time, but they have the ability to get through it. If I didn’t believe that, I wouldn’t have bought two Harleys within the last 24 months.
What BMW electric motorcycle are you talking about? I'm aware of their electric mopeds or scooters sold in Europe. But no motorcycle along the lines of Zero, Energica or Harley.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
"BMW C Evolution Electric Motorcycle" does indeed look like a moped, but they call it a motorcycle. BMW's next offering, according to press releases, hopes to compete in the same class with the Livewire, within the next 5 years. H-D did something different and risky, and we'll find out how this risk-reward works out for them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
"BMW C Evolution Electric Motorcycle" does indeed look like a moped, but they call it a motorcycle. BMW's next offering, according to press releases, hopes to compete in the same class with the Livewire, within the next 5 years. H-D did something different and risky, and we'll find out how this risk-reward works out for them.
I think you have your BMW names mixed up. The Vision DC Roadster is their true E motorcycle. As you say, we may see it for sale in the near future.


BMW does call the C Evolution a scooter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
I read that blog by the BMW CEO as well, specific to the model they’ve already shown at the expos. Tells me either they don’t care any more than the rest of the big petroleum-based car manufacturers to go electric and cut into their profits from established engineering designs, or they haven’t figured it out yet. The electric BMW motorcycle/scooter being sold today (source for me was BMW’s website) can only go up to 70 miles in the city. H-D has doubled that, and on their first release. I doubt we’ll see eye-to-eye on what Elon Musk and others are doing to shake-up an industry that has no interest in changing, but H-D and Mr. Musk before H-D, are changing the world. To me, an environmental engineer, I’m glad H-D took the risk on the Livewire. And I hope we’re all looking back in a few years talking about how H-D turned the motorcycle world upside down, knowing there will be plenty of room for their gas-powered V-Twins for many, many years to come.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
Don't know what your basing your thoughts that car manufacturers don't care about EVs. They will be forced to cut down on CO2 emissions by government regulations already on the books for the future. Since we've been on BMW, what are their plans? They've have said they plan to take their whole lineup all-electric (BEV). Their projections show at least 7 million BMW EVs on the road within 10 years and 4.6 million of those BEVs.So I can see their motorcycles going electric with-in 5 years.

As for the US, GM and Ford have stated going electric also. GM has their BEV Hummer coming out next. Ford has invested 11.5B dollars so far in EVs. On the books BEV F-150 and Transit vans for 2022 and the Mustang MME starting deliveries this December.

Now for HD. Yes they came out first with the Livewire but as soon as the Asian builders come out with their EVs expect them to be cheaper and just as good on stats. Plus they have a lineup for all types riders. Already showing off electric dirt bikes for younger people. Hope the best for HD but with their lineup I can see a very expensive touring bike if they survive.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top