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Harley did great with the 2020 LiveWire. It was their first go at developing an electric motorcycle that went by well. For 2021, the LiveWire could see changes to range, performance, handling, weight, features, options, specs and even pricing. To owners that spent enough time with this bike, what do you think those changes should be?
 

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Harley did great with the 2020 LiveWire. It was their first go at developing an electric motorcycle that went by well. For 2021, the LiveWire could see changes to range, performance, handling, weight, features, options, specs and even pricing. To owners that spent enough time with this bike, what do you think those changes should be?
There will be no major changes to the 2021 LW if any at all. If they do something it will be options they left off the 2020. Accessories like heated grips, windscreen, storage, etc. With level 3 charging built in there is no need for Level 2.
 

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I respectfully disagree. Level 3 charging is faster, but there are not near as many stations as Level 2 (of course this is dependent on where you live). I test drove a Zero last year and was able to drive out away from the city and charge the bike at a restaurant while I had lunch. The LiveWire (as its currently designed) forces you to stay within range of a Level 3 charger (which is few and far between..again depending on where you live). Level 2 chargers are also cheap to install and are usually free. Ideally it would be nice to have Level 1,2, and 3 chargers on board. That in my mind would allow the greatest flexibility but probably undoable for some reason. Of course as soon as a few more level 3 stations pop up in my area I will probably change my tune :)
 

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Not to keep harping on this...but I plan on buying a Cyber Truck next year. The Cyber Truck will have a 220V outlet in the bed (running off a ~ 200 KW battery). If the LiveWire would accept Level 2 charging I could use the Cyher Truck as my home base when I wanted to ride somewhere cool away from city. A man can dream cant he....
 

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Agree - L2 would be nice. I don't know anything about these systems....could it be updated with software? L1 is great for home, but at work the chargers are L2 and so I would be getting only L1 (do I pay for L1 or L2?)

the fast charger can't be used any more frequently than every 4th charge or warranty may be denied
 

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I think it’s a hardware issue. The great conspiracy theory is that Harley chose level 3 so you would likely go to a Harley dealer to charge. This would actually be ok, but level 3 chargers are so expensive to install that not that many Harley dealers are going to have them. I live in Indiana and I believe we only have 2 LiveWire dealers in the entire state. I was told that it’s very expensive for a dealer to obtain the infrastructure Harley requires in order to sell LiveWires. It’s a conundrum indeed.
 

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I think it’s a hardware issue. The great conspiracy theory is that Harley chose level 3 so you would likely go to a Harley dealer to charge. This would actually be ok, but level 3 chargers are so expensive to install that not that many Harley dealers are going to have them. I live in Indiana and I believe we only have 2 LiveWire dealers in the entire state. I was told that it’s very expensive for a dealer to obtain the infrastructure Harley requires in order to sell LiveWires. It’s a conundrum indeed.
You can lay that theory to rest. All HD Livewire dealers are required to have Level 3 chargers. There are currently 150 to 160 LW dealers. You get 2 years free charging from these dealers. The chargers are on the ChargePoint network so you can use any CP charger anywhere to charge up for free. You also get 500kWh free charging from the Electrify America network over your first two years. 500kWh is equivalent to 38 full charges. EA is installing a network across major highways so you will not be more than 70 miles between chargers. EA is a subsidiary of Volkswagen. EA is growing so fast Ford has partnered with them for the upcoming BEV Mach-E. Here in Texas most EA chargers are at Walmart locations. ChargePoint is in the meantime installing on average 2000 chargers per month in new locations.
 

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Small world!! I just spoke to them yesterday and they said they just sold their first LiveWire. You must have been that lucky guy! Where did you find information on future Charge Point Level 3 chargers? As far as I can tell most Charge Point installations are level 2.
 

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I think it’s a hardware issue. The great conspiracy theory is that Harley chose level 3 so you would likely go to a Harley dealer to charge. This would actually be ok, but level 3 chargers are so expensive to install that not that many Harley dealers are going to have them. I live in Indiana and I believe we only have 2 LiveWire dealers in the entire state. I was told that it’s very expensive for a dealer to obtain the infrastructure Harley requires in order to sell LiveWires. It’s a conundrum indeed.
 

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Ive owned many electric vehicles including a Nissan Leaf, Tesla Model S, Audi Etron and Porsche Taycan and all have the same thing in common. You will do most of your charging at home on a level 2 charging. I really feel that HD hit the mark with this bike performance wise except in one way. With a lower range electric vehicle you must have fast level 2 charging. The fact it takes 8hrs ( same as 110v) to charge at 220v is the reason anyone who loves EVs will not buy this motorcycle. Ev car buyers like me are the ones that would buy this motorcycle and I will not buy one till they fix the level 2 charging time. It should be able to charge with in 2-3 hrs at 220v. It will severely limit its use and also compete with other vehicles charging at home. Also Level 2 chargers are everywhere compared to Level 3. I am itching to buy one but will not until the level 2 charging time improves. It should be about 1/3 to 1/4 the time of Level 1 charging. With the Live Wires limited range I would like to ride it on the weekend and plug it in for a little and take it on another trip with out worrying about running out of juice. I welcome comments from everyone and HD themselves
 

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Ive owned many electric vehicles including a Nissan Leaf, Tesla Model S, Audi Etron and Porsche Taycan and all have the same thing in common. You will do most of your charging at home on a level 2 charging. I really feel that HD hit the mark with this bike performance wise except in one way. With a lower range electric vehicle you must have fast level 2 charging. The fact it takes 8hrs ( same as 110v) to charge at 220v is the reason anyone who loves EVs will not buy this motorcycle. Ev car buyers like me are the ones that would buy this motorcycle and I will not buy one till they fix the level 2 charging time. It should be able to charge with in 2-3 hrs at 220v. It will severely limit its use and also compete with other vehicles charging at home. Also Level 2 chargers are everywhere compared to Level 3. I am itching to buy one but will not until the level 2 charging time improves. It should be about 1/3 to 1/4 the time of Level 1 charging. With the Live Wires limited range I would like to ride it on the weekend and plug it in for a little and take it on another trip with out worrying about running out of juice. I welcome comments from everyone and HD themselves
It all depends where one lives. I've got DC fast charge convenient to me everywhere I ride. This bike was made for commuting around town so no saddlebags or any kind of storage. On the other hand an adventurous person can do long distance riding if they choose to. Several people have done it and Ewan and Charlie did their ride for "Long Way Up". I can see why HD went with Level 1 and 3 charging.

 

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Ive owned many electric vehicles including a Nissan Leaf, Tesla Model S, Audi Etron and Porsche Taycan and all have the same thing in common. You will do most of your charging at home on a level 2 charging. I really feel that HD hit the mark with this bike performance wise except in one way. With a lower range electric vehicle you must have fast level 2 charging. The fact it takes 8hrs ( same as 110v) to charge at 220v is the reason anyone who loves EVs will not buy this motorcycle. Ev car buyers like me are the ones that would buy this motorcycle and I will not buy one till they fix the level 2 charging time. It should be able to charge with in 2-3 hrs at 220v. It will severely limit its use and also compete with other vehicles charging at home. Also Level 2 chargers are everywhere compared to Level 3. I am itching to buy one but will not until the level 2 charging time improves. It should be about 1/3 to 1/4 the time of Level 1 charging. With the Live Wires limited range I would like to ride it on the weekend and plug it in for a little and take it on another trip with out worrying about running out of juice. I welcome comments from everyone and HD themselves
I have been on the other side of this - arguing that L2 is not an issue because in reality, most people will have this as a second, third, or eighth bike in my case. In that setting the "need" to go more than 120-ish miles at a time will be quite low. It is an expensive toy, not much more at this point as HD demonstrates what can be achieved at this time. Of course, there are exceptions and I also have the advantage of riding in central Indiana where roads are flat (maybe not really an advantage!) and so I get probably optimal range.

Here is my question for someone with a lot of EV experience - don't you think that L3 is the future if we really are going to a larger fleet of EV vs ICE? Living in rural America, I struggle with how the infrastructure will be implemented and even L2 is just not going to be enough for practical purposes. So it seems to me that L3 is an essential direction.
 

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I think the short term solution would to be to incorporate Level 2 charging in the bike (along with Level 3). I think Energica does this. I disagree with the notion that the bike should only be used as a commuter type bike. This constraint is self imposed by Harley at the moment. Even if you live in an area with abundant Level 3 chargers, the direction from Harley is to not use them more than every 1 out of 4 charges. If you follow that direction, the bike is severely limited. I cant see very many Level 3 chargers being built outside urban areas for a long time (very expensive).
 

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I think the short term solution would to be to incorporate Level 2 charging in the bike (along with Level 3). I think Energica does this. I disagree with the notion that the bike should only be used as a commuter type bike. This constraint is self imposed by Harley at the moment. Even if you live in an area with abundant Level 3 chargers, the direction from Harley is to not use them more than every 1 out of 4 charges. If you follow that direction, the bike is severely limited. I cant see very many Level 3 chargers being built outside urban areas for a long time (very expensive).
The charging ratio will not limit use of the bike any. Even though HD does not make it clear the 4:1 ratio is in hours and not times used. When I bought my bike I told the dealer the 4:1 ratio would limit long distance riding and that is when I was informed the ratio was for hours and not times charged. So charging at home for 10 hours overnight on average with a low SOC will free you up for plenty of DC fast charges.

EA has two cross-country routes built with DC fast charging across the USA with more to come.
 

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"...the ratio was for hours and not times charged. So charging at home for 10 hours overnight on average with a low SOC will free you up for plenty of DC fast charges."

Great news, saved to remember.
 

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Ive owned many electric vehicles including a Nissan Leaf, Tesla Model S, Audi Etron and Porsche Taycan and all have the same thing in common. You will do most of your charging at home on a level 2 charging. I really feel that HD hit the mark with this bike performance wise except in one way. With a lower range electric vehicle you must have fast level 2 charging. The fact it takes 8hrs ( same as 110v) to charge at 220v is the reason anyone who loves EVs will not buy this motorcycle. Ev car buyers like me are the ones that would buy this motorcycle and I will not buy one till they fix the level 2 charging time. It should be able to charge with in 2-3 hrs at 220v. It will severely limit its use and also compete with other vehicles charging at home. Also Level 2 chargers are everywhere compared to Level 3. I am itching to buy one but will not until the level 2 charging time improves. It should be about 1/3 to 1/4 the time of Level 1 charging. With the Live Wires limited range I would like to ride it on the weekend and plug it in for a little and take it on another trip with out worrying about running out of juice. I welcome comments from everyone and HD themselves
 
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