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Time for a top management shakeup at LiveWire Motorcycles..

687 Views 17 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  Oldun, 
jr4488
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P
Interesting opinion. But I dont agree with anything said - except that the electric motorcycle market is challenging to get started.

It's a new market area, and all new starts are slow these days.

Personally, I've been impressed by all of the Livewire senior management with which I've had contact.

Interesting opinions though.
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jr4488 said:
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Well said jr4488,
I couldn’t agree with you more, every thing you point out in your video seems to be the unfortunate reality.
I don’t know anything about starting a company,
but what I do know from personal experience is that when 99% of peoples reaction to seeing the LiveWire for the first time is: “what’s that” kind of says it all, when it comes to H-D / LW1s marketing.
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T
I expect to get lots of questions about the ELW riding it this year but to be fair the general public doesn't really know anything about bikes anyway. I can't tell you how many times I have had people look at my Kawasaki cruisers and ask me if it's a Harley. I wouldn't expect the majority of people to know what a LiveWire is.
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I believe you are correct about the general public’s ignorance when it comes to 2-wheeled vehicles, the general public could care less about them, and so why would they know what a Livewire is.

My knowledge or lack there of is purely anecdotal. But when you’re supposed mission is to turn a portion of that non riding general public into buyers of your new type of 2-wheeled vehicle, shouldn’t there be a strong effort to market / advertise that new product.

If H-D / LW1 are serious about making E motorcycles a viable part of their corporation(s), and if they were making a real effort to educate / advertise to this potential market, then I would expect more than 1% of even the non riding, general public’s reaction to the Livewire shouldn’t be: “what’s that”, it should be more like: “there’s one of those Livewires.”
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xophere
I think none of us are really qualified to tell HD much less LW how to run a new company in these conditions. I do think are not deverging from HD fast enough. They HD dealers suck generally. LW buyers aren't Harley buyers and that is kinda the point.
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xophere said:
I think none of us are really qualified to tell HD much less LW how to run a new company in these conditions. I do think are not deverging from HD fast enough. They HD dealers suck generally. LW buyers aren't Harley buyers and that is kinda the point.
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I traded my 2015 Breakout in on my LiveWire and while I really liked the Breakout I like the LiveWire even more! I do get the vibe from my brother and some other Harley owners that an electric Harley is sort of an oxymoron because a Harley inherently has to have the iconic loud thumping sound produced by the big bore V-twin. While I enjoyed that as well I think Harley was thoughtful about trying to create a sound for the LiveWire that was different but equally as exciting. I don't miss the heat from the engine and like hearing the wind while I ride so it works for me. The throttle response on the LiveWire is irresistible and I couldn't go back to a combustion bike. My biggest disappointment isn't that the dealers suck but that HD didn't get more of them onboard at least for service if not sales. Having the closest dealer where I can get my bike serviced 250 miles away on a bike with a range of 100 miles per charge isn't ideal... and of course the lack of accessories is ridiculous.
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I also own a ICE H-D (‘16 FXDLS) and a couple of Buell’s (‘09 XB12Ss, ‘08 XB12S) I bought the Dyna Low Rider S to ride with friends that have baggers (Street Glides). The majority of traditional H-D ICE bike riders don’t get it, nor do they care to try and get it, because they are more into Show than Go, and that is fine, everyone is free to do their thing.

But I like to Go more than Show, and I agree there is nothing like riding the Livewire, I have never ridden anything that comes close. The Buell’s are fun to ride on the back roads and they still sound good. But most H-D riders were not into what Eric Buell was trying to do; make a light, well handling bike. There was no real passion at H-D from the top down and so H-D let the Buell die. The same is true with the V-Rod, H-D tried to make a reliable water cooled cruiser, but again no passion there and H-D let the V-Rod die.

It’s a different world out there now, and I realize there is a whole lot of unseen stuff going on behind the scenes, concerning the push to electrify transportation, only time will tell what the future holds for the Livewire. But the track record at H-D for something other than a Shiny, Load, BarcaLounger on wheels, is not good.
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jblenk25
To each his own. I also love my LW1. The ride is unique and I like being able to hear what is around me and I too don't miss the heat coming up in summer. I also like the conversations I get while at a stop light. Hay what is that? How many cc's? The LW is a head turner! I don't like the stock mirrors, I turned them down so I can now see behind me, added a windscreen and saddlebags. Having a blast commuting to work and back. Ride Free!!!
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jblenk25 said:
To each his own. I also love my LW1. The ride is unique and I like being able to hear what is around me and I too don't miss the heat coming up in summer. I also like the conversations I get while at a stop light. Hay what is that? How many cc's? The LW is a head turner! I don't like the stock mirrors, I turned them down so I can now see behind me, added a windscreen and saddlebags. Having a blast commuting to work and back. Ride Free!!!
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What saddlebags did you go with? Have you got any pics?
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xophere
jblenk25 said:
To each his own. I also love my LW1. The ride is unique and I like being able to hear what is around me and I too don't miss the heat coming up in summer. I also like the conversations I get while at a stop light. Hay what is that? How many cc's? The LW is a head turner! I don't like the stock mirrors, I turned them down so I can now see behind me, added a windscreen and saddlebags. Having a blast commuting to work and back. Ride Free!!!
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Yep if I linger by the bike I end up in a conversation... So odd they aren't trying harder to sell more of them. I do think Jack is right about a model refresh. All they have to do is change the battery pack and add a new cooler.
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Phaedrus said:
Interesting opinion. But I dont agree with anything said - except that the electric motorcycle market is challenging to get started.

It's a new market area, and all new starts are slow these days.

Personally, I've been impressed by all of the Livewire senior management with which I've had contact.

Interesting opinions though.
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I do not wish to sound combative, but on three occasions I have written to LiveWire senior management with what I have regarded as perfectly reasonable questions about future upgrades, branded accessories, and app support for non-US residents - and not once have I gotten even an acknowledgement. And I was polite. That is my default First Approach, to be polite.

Then when I attended a LiveWire-organised evening in London last year, the "advantages" of attendance that were promised, never eventuated. I asked nicely why not, and did not get the courtesy of a reply either.

4/4 strikes, in my opinion.

I consider myself an ambassador for this bike, especially but not only since I own two LiveWires, and while I would not want to sound whiny... I am curious why the LiveWire senior management ignore us (or some of us anyway :) YMMV )
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xophere
It is odd.
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Octane_Deficient
Phaedrus said:
Interesting opinion. But I dont agree with anything said - except that the electric motorcycle market is challenging to get started.

It's a new market area, and all new starts are slow these days.

Personally, I've been impressed by all of the Livewire senior management with which I've had contact.

Interesting opinions though.
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A 120 year old motorcycle company that considered the evolution engine a major change and kept it for decades is not going to tolerate nearly a billion in R&D and the associated losses over three model years now to generate the embarrassment of 21 units sold per month last quarter. If the delmar isn't a grand slam home run Harley will pull the plug this year quicker than a biting horsefly gets swatted away. Already they screwed up the march release date and they are innovating a second gen platform with a motorcycle that needs longer charging time (70 minutes) than a bike that was in development in 2014. Has anybody see the chaos at charging stations these days? A guy that can put 300 miles on his car in 15 minutes needs to wait for me to charge at 10 kW for the better part of an hour now. This is insane. I suppose that's okay for the delmar because it will never go near a ccs charger... but if it did and the charge rate were comparable, the 60 minute charge would drop to under 10 minutes. Tesla is going to 1000 kW chargers where the state of the art CCS' standard is 350 kW. Zeitz and the LW management team has produced embarrassing results (21 sales monthy) after their engineers did a damned great job on the LW.
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CrossBones
Oldun said:
I do not wish to sound combative, but on three occasions I have written to LiveWire senior management with what I have regarded as perfectly reasonable questions about future upgrades, branded accessories, and app support for non-US residents - and not once have I gotten even an acknowledgement. And I was polite. That is my default First Approach, to be polite.

Then when I attended a LiveWire-organised evening in London last year, the "advantages" of attendance that were promised, never eventuated. I asked nicely why not, and did not get the courtesy of a reply either.

4/4 strikes, in my opinion.

I consider myself an ambassador for this bike, especially but not only since I own two LiveWires, and while I would not want to sound whiny... I am curious why the LiveWire senior management ignore us (or some of us anyway :) YMMV )
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FWIW: I haven't needed to use this tactic with Harley (yet?), but with AT&T, Verizon, Spectrum, and Comcast/xfinity, when I've needed to rattle some cages so to speak, I've had very good luck and almost immediate replies by cc-ing the shareholder services email address on my messages. You can easily get these from the respective corporate websites. My messages are always polit, but firm, and express my displeasure with the situation. Might help with HOG/LVWR.
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Octane_Deficient
CrossBones said:
FWIW: I haven't needed to use this tactic with Harley (yet?), but with AT&T, Verizon, Spectrum, and Comcast/xfinity, when I've needed to rattle some cages so to speak, I've had very good luck and almost immediate replies by cc-ing the shareholder services email address on my messages. You can easily get these from the respective corporate websites. My messages are always polit, but firm, and express my displeasure with the situation. Might help with HOG/LVWR.
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My experience with the telcos and ISPs are the big guys have an "office of president" communications channel that typically gets stuff done, ASAP. Zietz has gone out of his way to be uncontactable. Imagine having 2000 beta testers who paid between $33k and $24k to be beta testers and they aren't solicited for ANY input on a billion dollar blue sky initiative? I can't even buy a $120 button up shirt expressing my undying love for LW like the regular Harley guys can do and this comes from a guy who made his mark by marketing Puma branded apparel.
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xophere
It is all valid. I have no need to hero worship any CEO so my expectations of these folks are very low. HD is just trying to be ready for the future but is just so tempted to eat the seeds before they grow. Ruining Alta rather then just owning and licensing their stuff. Being so slow and so off. The only hope is they are working the details but my guess is they are running from the thing and plowing more money into the Pan-American and the new sporter. Which are great bikes but they are fighting to get in a game that is over. Having gotten back into Motorcycling I have started to really enjoy lots of moto media. But the more you consider gas bikes the more it is so clearly over. You can argue the timeline length but you watch someone assemble or rebuild a beautiful Ducati and you are like wow so much to mess with and manage here. Historically I think ICE engines will be this amazing thing that we used to hack our way forward. The level of intrinsic and engineering to get more and more performance out of them. It really boggles the mind. Assuming battery tech doesn't hit a wall and we get even just one more solid generation I think the cost to own ICE will be so high. Now the issue of creating all the electricity and distribution is another problem.
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I don't disagree that there are some significant charging limitations on the current LiveWire platform. And it's clear that there are significant levels of unresponsiveness all the way through the Harley-Davidson monolith, and - in my view - they spunoff of the LiveWire because 'they' decided to not stay invested in it, having learned from their Buell and Vrod forays - both technically excellent bikes which those of us who bought them had terrific fun riding, but without corporate investment as well as passion behind these brands they were always going to be neglected stepchildren.

That said, all the way back to when I got my first and second motorcycles; I buy and ride them for the current fun, not for future prospects. And again I think it's entirely understandable that people are unhappy with the charging options, on the other hand, I can still remember drum brakes, carburettors that needed to be jetted, kick- and jump- and run-starts, peanut tanks, did I mention drum brakes? also "Prince of Darkness" electrics, failing coils, and did I mention carburettors? So I'm very happy with what I have with the LiveWire right now, and if in time to come it's no longer supported after it sucks the kumara (Kiwi expression for craps out) well then if my arthritis allows I will ride whatever replacement there is that my wallet can afford.

"The perfect motorcycle is the enemy of the great motorcycle".
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