[Wavshrdr]

I am trying to understand the differences between the original 2020 HD ELW Livewire and the 2022 Livewire One? I've read a few sites that allude to some changes but don't clearly enumerate them. I am on the fence about which version to buy. You would hope that they learned some things while in production and incorporated them in the most recent model but you never know.

The changes I see externally are different colors and branding. Looks like they got rid of the stupid hole in the rear fender too.

I read someplace they might have made some tweaks to the software for improved range thought it looks like they claim the same range. I also read that the HP and TQ numbers went downwards a bit but not significantly; 105 HP vs 100 HP, 86 vs 84 lb/ft.

I read they might have a newer onboard charger, the latch mechanism on the seat was updated. I read about some failures on the onboard charger were VERY expensive to fix like 7-8k. So if they improved the design, that would be a big help.

Are there any other changes that people are aware? If there a site that lists the significant changes?

 

[detansinn]

• Different colors
• Different Apps and different firmware. No difference in range between the bikes. Bar and Shield icon is replaced with LiveWire logo
• HD Bikes have fender hole for aero. No hole on LiveWire brand bikes.
• Electric port cover branding
• No mechanical/electrical differences between the two bikes
• HD bikes qualify for HOG membership. LiveWire VINs do not. An HD LiveWire gives you all of the perks and discounts related to Harley ownership.
• Electrify America and Chargepoint offers are exclusive to HD LiveWires.
• LiveWire branded bikes get red reflective tape at the hinge point of the seat. HD LiveWire bikes don’t seem to have that.
• Fundamentally the same motorcycle with BNG (bold new graphics)

Never heard of the charger issue. There was some discussion that the LiveWire branded bikes have a heavier RESS due to a different cell suppliers, but in the real world, no one has reported differences.

If you can find a leftover 2020 HD LiveWire for a bargain, get one. That’s what I did.

 

[xophere]

Ah so the pay off is in the free charging for sure the. But that is only two years. But given a steep discount and similar pricing that makes sense. The Hog membership thing is weird. My dealer said it did? I remember ready somewhere there was a performance difference. But I have never found real data.

 

[detansinn]

LiveWire VINs are not HD VINs.

Another difference is that the HD Livewires have 3 custom ride modes. LiveWire touts only one custom ride mode for the LW1. I haven't confirmed that one first hand.

 

[xophere]

Nope. Maybe in older firmware. I think my 22 LW1 as 3 custom settings. Def 2.

 

[Phaedrus]

Nope. Maybe in older firmware. I think my 22 LW1 as 3 custom settings. Def 2.

3 Custom modes in an LW1. A, B, and C.

Firmware for LW1 is a newer rellease than ELW, and continues to be updated.

Plus LW1 is eligible for the initial free ChargePoint, although not Electrify America.

And LW1 has great phone tech support for owners direct from Livewire, LLC - which is not available to ELW.

Not to menion, LW1 is still in production for out-year support. ELW is out of production.

Right now LW1 is U.S. only. ELW had international model.

Oh, and my '22 LW1 doesnt have any geeky red reflective tape on the back of the seat. 🙂

 

[detansinn]

3 Custom modes in an LW1. A, B, and C.

Firmware for LW1 is a newre rellease and continues to be updated.

Plus LW1 is eligible for the initial free ChargePoint, although not Electrify America.

And LW1 has great phone tech support for owners direct from Livewire, LLC - which is not available to ELW.

Not to menion, LW1 is still in production for out-year support. ELW is out of production.

Oh, and my '22 LW1 doesnt have any geeky red reflective tape on the bake of the seat. 🙂

Harley-Davidson support is pretty great. I’ve been on the phone with them.

Yes, it’s possible that in the future, LW1 will get some meaningful firmware update beyond what the ELW gets, but HD is still updating and actively supporting the ELW.

At the moment, they are the same motorcycle with different graphics.

3 Custom modes in an LW1. A, B, and C.

Firmware for LW1 is a newre rellease and continues to be updated.

Plus LW1 is eligible for the initial free ChargePoint, although not Electrify America.

And LW1 has great phone tech support for owners direct from Livewire, LLC - which is not available to ELW.

Not to menion, LW1 is still in production for out-year support. ELW is out of production.

Oh, and my '22 LW1 doesnt have any geeky red reflective tape on the bake of the seat. 🙂

Thanks. That’s something that I wasn’t able to confirm. Found it interesting the only 1 custom mode is touted for these discounted fleet bikes.

 

[Phaedrus]

Maybe they refer to it as a "mode," like rain or road.? But there are 3 storage locations for different user-selected settings.

 

[xophere]

How do you setup the charge point deal? Not many around here but might be worth having.

 

[Wavshrdr]

So you get the free L3 charging with the LW1? It isn't a lot but it could be handy.

I think it was in a Facebook group that I read about the OBC charger issues. Sounds like an expensive repair and it didn't show up until after the warranty period for the most part. So this would be a huge plus if the LW1 has the updated charger.

I think the original ELW might be more collectible but if chargers are issue that might impact that. I don't care as much about collectibility as much as how it might impact resale. OTOH if Livewire as a company doesn't succeed, HD has no reason to support you. So in the scenario of Livewire bankrupt, you are holding a ride with no support. At least with the ELW, HD has skin in the game.

One of my bigger concerns about the ELW vs LW1 is software/firmware updates. Is HD truly updating the SW/firmware on the 2020's. If so, is that just to fix issue or also adding functionality?

I haven't heard of any LW1 SW/firmware updates being able to be installed on the ELW. It might be possible in the short term but as Livewire makes changes, less likely in the future.

I am a current owner of a few Teslas and these updates make a huge difference in the performance/functionality of the cars. Depending if there aren't too many changes in the hardware, and maybe if the code isn't signed, it might be possible to update the ELW SW/firmware if you could get a Livewire dealer to do it.

At this time it is a tough choice for me. I like the colors of the ELW more than the LW1. The LW1 fleet bikes might be a good option if they also come with free L3 charging. I'd definitely want an extended warranty for any of them.

It is really a tough decision between the 2. I can get a used, low miles ELW and have just under 20k in it by the time I pay sales tax and license costs on it. I don't think it has any warranty left though so that might limit my extended warranty options. I found another that has about a year left but about 1k more all in. With that I am sure I could get a pretty decent extended warranty on.

I am still trying to figure out the cost of one of the fleet LW1 total cost. The dealers add such crazy fees to most bikes I'd be looking at probably 24k drive out on a 20k base price of the fleet model. If I am up in that price range, one of the Energicas is looking a lot more attractive given higher spec everything; range, power, suspension, etc.

 

[detansinn]

The LiveWire isn’t a Tesla. I am not sure that it’s the kind of thing that needs constant software updates. There’s no infotainment per se. Providing everything is running well and efficiently, that should do the deed.

You can get your LiveWire serviced at any Harley dealer that’s got a LiveWire trained tech, which is a lot of them as they were all prepared to sell the ELW. Most of the current LiveWire dealers are Harley dealers.

The “tank” covers and headlamp fairing are interchangeable between the ELW and the LW1. There are ELW owners wearing LW1 plastic already. Again, these are the same bikes.

I don’t subscribe to the OBC failure being some kind of widespread issue. There aren’t many ELWs out of warranty at this point. If I experienced such a failure after warranty, I would persuade HD to cover it under warranty. HD takes the market reception of these bikes very seriously.

Regardless of the logo on the tank covers, this is a flagship/halo machine.

Energica? No dealer network. No spare parts. Bikes fall short of the specification promises. No guarantee that you’ll be able to get any parts in a couple of years. I’ve owned a lot of Italian motorcycles. Know what you’re getting into.

 

[xophere]

Pretty sure Energica ships warranty spares direct to owners or independent shops.

 

[xophere]

I think livewire owns valuable IP at this point. The Altra stuff is in there. My guess is it doesn't dead end. Also those fleet bikes should be pick up at dealer buy online. Dealer has no say on price or added fees.

 

[Wavshrdr]

I can see easy interchanging of parts now as the tree has not had time to fork so far. I still think my point is valid that they didn't get the SW/firmware right from the start. Having a lot more bikes on the roads and in the hands of riders in a very wide variety of conditions will help surface the issues more than during their testing no matter how hard they tried.

Anyway we'll see how it plays out. I made an offer on an ELW. If the dealer accepts, I'll be riding it home today or tomorrow. I hope HD is in to support it for a long time.

As for Energica not meeting specs can't speak to that. The Ribelle and Ego I rode were clearly quicker than the ELW and didn't flatten out at higher speeds. Not saying the ELW is slow, but it tapers off its pull about 70-80. There isn't a lot of time I spend riding in triple digits any more so the current performance envelope will likely be fine for me. The big plus of the electric bike will be not having hot air shoveled into my chestnuts on a hot day from the engine or cooling fan while stuck in traffic.

 

[xophere]

Congrats I hope goes through!

 

[Wavshrdr]

I think I sort of split the baby so to speak. I worked out a good enough deal on a used ELW that it makes sense for me. It still has some factory warranty and that will give me some time to ride and it decide if I want to add an extended warranty to it before the factory warranty expires.

The savings work out to about 5k less than the best ride out price I could find on either an ELW or LW1. I could throw a long extended warranty on it and still come out ahead. Just hope the resale doesn't go to hell on them. I plan to have them check and make sure all the updates are done before I pick it up.

Any idea what the first service should run if it hasn't been done?

 

[detansinn]

I think I sort of split the baby so to speak. I worked out a good enough deal on a used ELW that it makes sense for me. It still has some factory warranty and that will give me some time to ride and it decide if I want to add an extended warranty to it before the factory warranty expires.

The savings work out to about 5k less than the best ride out price I could find on either an ELW or LW1. I could throw a long extended warranty on it and still come out ahead. Just hope the resale doesn't go to hell on them. I plan to have them check and make sure all the updates are done before I pick it up.

Any idea what the first service should run if it hasn't been done?

My 1k service came in at under $300.
I scored a brand new leftover 2020 ELW. Bangin’ deal with full warranty and all of the benefits of new.

 

[xophere]

My 1k service came in at under $300.
I scored a brand new leftover 2020 ELW. Bangin’ deal with full warranty and all of the benefits of new.

What does the E in ELW stand for?

 

[Wavshrdr]

I always assumed Electric...

 

[Kuro]

I have been curious about some of these questions, which lead me to consult the 2020, 2021 and 2022 parts manuals for the three models. Here are the changes I find from the 2020 ELW to the 2021 LW1. I used the component types and introduction dates to complete this list.

Note the HV battery and OBC are changed from the 2020 to the 2021, as an example of major changes?
Part numbers for these two items from the 2020 ELW: (for comparison)
66000189 BATTERY, high voltage
66000190 CHARGER, on board

2021

101A1 - Generic Nuts
10100153 2021

102A1 - Generic Screws
10201159 2021

140A2 - General Warning Label
14003043 2021

141A1 - Medallion
14101812 2021
14101811 2021
14101762 2021

415B1 - Brake Rotor
41500152A 2021
41500203 2021

418B1 - Brake Line
41800695A 2021
41800740A 2021
41800739A 2021
41800694A 2021

456Z3 - Kit,Fork Lock
45600128 2021
45600133 2021

472B2 - Structural Tailsection sub-component
47200504A 2021
47200503A 2021

505D1 - Passenger Footpeg
50502468 2021
50502467 2021

505G1 - Rider or Common Footpeg
50502465 2021
50502466 2021

505H1 - Footpeg Insert
50502464 2021

522C1 - Seat Lock Retainer Clip
52200029 2021

522E1 - Seat Lock-to-Latch Cable
52200022 2021

522Z1 - Kit,Seat Lock
52200040 2021

524A1 - Passenger Grab Handle
52400198A 2021

560A1 - Mirror
56000317 2021
56000316 2021

570A1 - Front Fairing
57000976EWH 2021

595Z1 - Kit,Rear Fender
59501010 2021

613N1 - EV Cover
61301301EWH 2021
61301300EWH 2021
61301300DH 2021
61301301DH 2021

660A2 - EV High Voltage Battery
66000334 2021

660J2 - OnBoard Battery Charger
66000257 2021

692H1 - Connector
69202914 2021

692H2 - Terminal
69202916 2021

692J1 - Vehicle Inlet
69202480A 2021

692L1 - Wire Harness sub-component
69202568 2021
69202569 2021

709B1 - Instrument Cluster or Speedometer
70901100 2021

903B1 - Key or Key-set
90300205 2021

903C1 - Key Transponder
90300200 2021

940A2 - Owner's Manual
94000863 2021

The changes from the 2021 to the 2022 are much smaller, other than the new red color, it looks to be the same as the 21 for the most part:

400A1 - Drive-Belt
40000019A 2022

560A1 - Mirror
56000316A 2022
56000317A 2022

570A1 - Front Fairing
57000976ESN 2022

613N1 - EV Cover
61301300ESN 2022
61301301ESN 2022

692H2 - Terminal
69202663 2022

940A2 - Owner's Manual
94000973 2022


Note that the new parts list includes things not listed above, but I will try and add them here:

In the 22 model, the coolant pump is listed as new, but not listed above. The part number is the same except is has an A at the end, much like the mirror part numbers between the 21 and 22. I don't know what an A at the end of a part number represents if the rest of the numbers are the same. Perhaps a different supplier?