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Discussion Starter #1
Think about the Target Demo..

Sample questions include “What words come to mind when you first rolled the throttle?” and “How would you describe the bike’s look, sound and feel?” The survey also asks how much a buyer would expect to pay, starting from “below $15,000” to as high as “$35,000 and above.”

For all the “awesomes” and “wows” collected on the commentaries, there also are criticisms: a desire for more battery range, for example, or on-board charging ports and storage. Several riders said the price would need to be near or below $15,000.
your average HD guy will not drop $15K on an e-bike, and the average target in the demo is calling for the lowest price range Harley offered them the choice. Either they are in La LA land aboutt he capabilities from a cost standpoint or they simply want something for nothing.

Which becomes almost catch 22, no one will spend $15K on a bike as primary transportation if its range/battery life is marginal at best, but the range/battery cannot be significantly improved at $15K....


HMMMMM
 

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The range should improve by the time this comes to market. I think that people should expect to pay between $15k-$20k.

I think that the key thing here is that the bike will improve before it comes to market. The price could be quite a bit more expensive than people are expecting though.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Everyone says that range will improve when it comes to market, oh really? Whats the metric, whats an appropriate improvement, half percent is still a bump in capability.

Thats fine for people expecting to pay between $15-20K, thats not the point, the point is perception. At $15K what are your expectations for a bike. Because at $15K you're certainly not getting anything better than a $15K ICE bike offers you and thats just a cold hard fact. Anything else is blind faith on your knees at the alter of technology IMO.
 

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Zero motorcycles are selling between $9,500 and $17,000. Its expensive but not totally crazy. Livewire could be the same.
 

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If the Livewire can be priced within that range it should help them do well and maybe even get a good portion of those sales.
 

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I couldn't see the livewire being price higher than $22,000. Hopefully its less than that because I won't be paying that much for it. I think that reaasonable would be $15,000ish depending what the final specs are.
 

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I don't think that the Livewire will be priced for accessibility so that means I am thinking a price of $15,000 to $18,000. It won't be a bike for those who are looking for a cheap commuter. I just am not sure what demographic that leaves for the Livewire.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Zero motorcycles are selling between $9,500 and $17,000. Its expensive but not totally crazy. Livewire could be the same.
you're right, but Zero is often crucified because the suspension is soft as butter, the range is piss poor and the tires are second rate. Harley has a brand to protect, they're not going to build and sell a bike like that...
 

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Do you think that means that Zero just hasn't developed their bikes very well and they have flaws, or is it that Zero is trying for a lower part of the market? In other words, is the Livewire going to be more expensive because it has better specs than the Zero, or will it fall into the same price range as Zeros and just turn out to be a better bike?
 

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I don't think that the Livewire will be priced for accessibility so that means I am thinking a price of $15,000 to $18,000. It won't be a bike for those who are looking for a cheap commuter. I just am not sure what demographic that leaves for the Livewire.
It definitely won't be for those folks, and won't be like that for a while or never when it comes to an HD product. But who knows, we may come to a day we see something starter friendly.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I don't think that the Livewire will be priced for accessibility so that means I am thinking a price of $15,000 to $18,000. It won't be a bike for those who are looking for a cheap commuter. I just am not sure what demographic that leaves for the Livewire.
the exact same demographic they have... the trade is still the same...
 

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at least sticking to a price range like that, if they're up for it they can do something sub $10k which may or may not be a good idea.
 

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I just figure that a cheaper version of this bike would have a small range. Not sure if that would be great to allow more people to buy it, or if no one would care because the range is so low.
 

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Having more people buy it wouldn't be such a bad thing, but i'm not sure if that's what HD will want as i noticed stuff like this is being pulled off as a luxury sort of thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I just figure that a cheaper version of this bike would have a small range. Not sure if that would be great to allow more people to buy it, or if no one would care because the range is so low.
It depends on the typical use realistically. Some guy from Mercedes had this to say about range angst recently

However, Harald Kroger, vice president of electronics and e-drive for Mercedes, thinks the limited range of an electric vehicle is an overstated problem: “These questions often evaporate if you use an EV on a daily basis. A lot of customers realise their regular driving is covered by a 95-mile range.”
which is logical from a four wheeled perspective, I'm not sure how well that translates to two. However I do think that range is just the popular thorn to pick because its an easy target...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
even with range like that you're more than good, good enough to do a daily commute and then some and some more.
True yes, but a 95 mile range (dependent on speed) Will net you what, an hour and a half of weekend riding at best? Even so you're not exactly getting far out there, essentially you will be confined to a 30 mile radius from home base, not exactly screaming ADVENTURE....
 

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What would help with wanting to go on a road trip that exceeds the range you can have on one charge cycle is to map out your route and plan out where you can recharge. I've been seeing charging stations pop up for EV's, they are few but growing.
 

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Part of it isn't range too, its the time it takes to recharge after going through all that range. Day to day will probably be fine but it is limiting.
 
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